The next step

[humpty]

I believe that Co2 is my next step in this process but my all of my experience has been in cichlids not plants.
My daughters tank is a 55 gal with 220w of PC lighting, filtered by a biowheel 300 and a Fluval 203 with a fbf attached. She has 2 rams, 2 diamond tetras, 3 blue tetras, 3 cories and 3 ottos. She also has about a dozen or so assorted plants, annubis, swords and such. They all seem to be growing well with good root growth and pearling, one of my concerns is the amount of algae growth and the ph hanging in the 7.5 range. I will run another set of tests tonight and post the results but I was wondering what you all thought would be best.

TIA,

Matt

 

[TankGirl]

Welcome to Aquarium Advice, humpty!!

I think you are going to have to get pressurized CO2 with that setup, with 4wpg. DIY will involve many bottles of solution and not very good control on a tank that size, though you could try it. The pH is not a real concern, in that the fish will do just fine in that water, but you will drop it with CO2. You'll need to measure your KH to be sure you have enough buffering capacity to hold the pH steady.

aquariumplant.com, an AA sponsor, has a fabulous deal on the equipment if you are interested in pressurized.

 

[humpty]

What would be a reasonable list of things needed for a pressurized setup. I don't want to break the bank but I don't think I want to be dealing with a pseudo home brew set-up either.
1. So I will need a tank, how big 5lb? How long will a pound last?
2. A regulator, Milwaukee seems to be well regarded around here.
3. Check valve and bubble counter.
4. Do I need a diffuser or anything or do they still pipe the Co2 into filters?

As a side note I wanted to thank you all! I had been lurking around reading about suitable fish for algae control and still be safe for plants and decided to give ottos a try, they have worked out great! They eat algae like there is no tomorrow! How many of them do you guys keep? We have 3 now and with the algae growth I could support more but I don't want to starve them out once the plants take over.

Thanks again!

 

[TankGirl]

I'd get a regulator, check valve and bubble counter, and a pH controller if you can swing it - it makes life so much easier, at least for me.

I have a 5lb tank and I just got it set up about a month ago so I can't tell you how long it will last, lol, but someone will come along soon with the scoop on that. Weigh the thing when it is full as weight will be the most reliable way to know when you need to refill.

There is debate about how the CO2 will affect the workings of your filter, especially any rubber parts, but I have a tube diffuser with an air pump attachment, so the bubbles get agitated within the tube so they are broken up into tiny particles. You could plumb your bubbles into your filter outflow if you are handy.

I'd get a couple of more otos if you like them, but most of the time they stick to eating diatoms and you won't likely have that available all the time. You can feed them sinking algae wafers at night, and zuchinni a couple of times a week. True SAE and rosy barbs are good, and I have had very good luck with American Flag-fish for hair algae. Even mollies will eat algae but they do much better in hard, alkaline, slightly brackish setups long-term, IMO. Also, the reknown ancistrus is an excellent citizen in a planted tank and they do an admirable job on algae.

 

[malkore]

Depending on your carbonate hardness, a pH controller is optional. Many people, myself included, run CO2 24/7 with no ill effects on the fish or plants. You need at least 3dKh to run any CO2. Once you hit 6dKh you shouldn't have any problems running CO2 all the time.

 

[TankGirl]

I just like my pH controller as a nifty gadget - I have pretty hard water so it is definitely not necessary, just handy. The solenoid shuts off regularly during the day, and after the photoperiod, so it makes me think I am saving CO2.

Oh - forgot to mention CO2 safe airline tubing will be necessary as well.

 

[humpty]

Ok I stopped at my local "gas guy" and I can get a 5lb or 10lb steel cylinder full for $75. Refills are $14 for 5lb $16 for 10lb. Aluminum cylinders are the same price but it is hit or miss on when they come in. Good deal?
If I did that and a regulator from aquariumplants.com for $75 that wouldn't be to bad. I would have to make or buy a reactor but that is doable. I could add a ph controller at any time right?
As soon as I am done making dinner I will post up my tank parameters for you all to critique!

Thanks.

 

[TankGirl]

Bon appetit!

 

[humpty]

Ok so here we go:

KH - 18
GH - 5
PH - 8.1
NO2 - 0
Ammonia - 0

Which if my calculations are correct puts my CO2 at 2.8 mg/l.
It also looks like I have plenty of KH to buffer the CO2 correct?
Do I need to pick up a Nitrate and phosphate test kit too?
I want this tank to look like Travis' tank!
By the way Oscars are easier, messer but easier!

humpty

 

[malkore]

Oh, that's 18 degrees of KH right? not 18ppm

As long as its degrees...yeah, you have more than enough buffering. In fact, you might be one of those people who's water is so hard it might be difficult to keep some plants. Is your tap water the same?

As far as those CO2 prices, yes they sound reasonable to me. See if that $75 is a deposit on the cylinder, or if you're actually buying it. I prefer to just put a deposit on one, as then I can swap it out, rather than waiting for a fill. Plus its not my responsibility to have it tested every so many years, which costs about $25 to have done, and they won't fill the tank unless the tank passes the test. And if I ever got out of planted tanks, I'd get my cash back.

 

[humpty]

Any better deals than aquariumplants.com?

I am thinking of a JBJ regulator, Sms 122 controller and the reactor 200.
Good plan or is there any better choices?

Thanks,
humpty

 

[malkore]

Milwaukee is a better regulator than the JBJ. Last I checked, aquariumplants.com had the cheapest Milwaukee price, and they have an option to bundle a pH controller (I think its the SMS 122) for a really good price.

I've chatted with the webmaster for aquariumplants.com and they've had quite a few warranty claims on the JBJ, but only 2 on the milwaukee, which is why they stopped carrying the JBJ altogether.
I have 2 milwaukees, and they are nothing but a pleasure to use. When brand new, they have to 'break in' the tension on the adjustment knob...meaning you'll get it set perfect, and an hour later no CO2 will be flowing, so you have to crank the knob a little more. Rinse and repeat about 3-4 times and then it stays stable forever. Literally.

 

[TankGirl]

That is exactly how my Milwaukee was when I first set it up - glad to hear it was not "just me." I am very happy I went with Milwaukee so far.

I truly don't think you are going to find any better prices than aquariumplants.com, but check out aquatic-store.com, aquabotanic.com, floridadriftwood.com and azgardens.com and you will get a good idea of what this equipment goes for.

 

[humpty]

Well I ordered my stuff from AP.com we will see how long it takes to get here seeing as it is only about 6 hours from here.
In setting this up how do determine how quickly to allow the PH to fall? You are setting it up to achieve a optimum Co2 level based off of your KH so the PH seems to be the variable that you will not have much input in correct? So for instance, if you were at a PH of 8 and your optimum Co2 level/KH formula put your PH at 7 would you set your PH controller at 7.8 for a while and then bump it down in intervals over a period of time until you get to 7?

TIA
humpty

 

[TankGirl]

You got it. You want to bump it down very gradually so the fish can adapt to the change.

 

[humpty]

Well all my stuff has arrived!
I stopped on the way home and picked up the Co2 bottle and got everything hooked up. I should have gone with a external reactor but I didn't want anymore in line with the fluval, oh well.
So now it is on and running and have the controller set real close to the tanks current ph, how many bubbles per whatever should I set it to? I figure I will run this way for a week or so and then lower the controller a bit more and so on. I figure I am about .2 to .5 below the tanks current ph too much?

Thanks all I appreciate all the help!!!!