Thinning plants (namely Anacharis)

[FMJnaX]

I'll try and keep this short and simple. Basically, my anacharis has slowly been thinning out. When the original bunches were bought from the LFS, they were very bushy and full and bright green. The LFS floats them in a 20 gallon tank with standard lighting. No CO2, no high lighting. The water is room temp water with minimal movement/filtration.

Anyway, over the course of the last 2 months, it has been getting thinner and thinner in the aquarium. I only have 1 original bunch left and it's outdoors in my cold water "pond". It's still growing, though very slowly. The color is much deeper green, but it appears to be keeping the fullness. The plants that are in the aquarium are growing fine. I have to split them every week with the PWC. I'm giving them only about .7 WPG and no CO2/fertilizer. They still have a very bright color, but they are getting very thing. I believe my nutrient levels are fine because they're not sending down aerial roots.

So, what could be a cause of the thinning of my plants? I've read that colder water promotes a fuller growth, but when I checked the thermometer on the LFS growing tanks, the water was at about 74F. I'm at 78F so it shouldn't make that much of a difference. Next I thought it was my low lighting, but again, when I checked at the LFS, they were using a 20 gal tank with a 15W fluorescent (he wasn't sure about K or anything). Lastly, I thought maybe it was my surface agitation releasing too much CO2 (which I later shot down by reading anyway). As a result, I upped my water level so that the HOB's didn't cause agitation. Over the 2 week period, I say no changes. The only other thing I can think of is that I have 2 goldfish in my tank... but that should actually IMPROVE growing with the extra CO2, right?

I've read that anacharis is a low-light plant, and mid-light plant, and even a high-light plant. My most trusted information mentions it as a mid-light plant. Could it be because I don't have enough light or the right K setting? My bulb is a simple 20W 24" fluorescent, probably about 4,000K. It came with my hood. Could it be that I don't have enough CO2? I haven't tested for it, but it should be right around 3-4 ppm (fish addition and natural atmospher). I know I'm getting photosynthesis because the plants grow well... and quite fast. I've also experimented with my outdoor "pond" by making transplants. The outdoor plants have never needed splitting because they just don't grow fast enough. However, they are much fuller than the indoor plants. So, what I've been doing is I make a 50/50 switch every week. I move all of the new indoor shoots outside and bring in 1/2 of that amount I just took out. I don't see any difference here. The new shoots are full and busy at the base, but as they grow in the aquarium, they grow thin.

I know I said I would try to keep this short, but I've been dwelling on it for weeks now and can't come up with a solution. I don't want to run out and buy something that I don't have to and that's why I don't have a DIY CO2 or a new bulb... yet (I almost bought a plant bulb yesterday). I know something has to be wrong because I've NEVER seen anacharis so thin. Maybe I'm just worrying too much.... pictures when I get home.

Thanks all!

 

[greenmaji]

I cant seem to find anacharis.. is there more to the name?
A bulb with the correct K values would most likely help.. Plant and Aquarium bulb or 6500K
If you have no CO2 then surface aggitation is the only way the water will get more CO2, to equalize with the CO2 concentration in the room.. If your not injecting CO2 try increasing surface aggitation..

 

[FMJnaX]

anacharis - Egeria densa or elodea

I'm probably going to pick up a bulb today. If that wasn't the problem, then I'll bite the bullet and at least have a better bulb.

 

[FMJnaX]

Here are the pics:

In the first one, these are my split stalks from Saturday. In this picture, oddly enough, they don't look too bad. Trust me though, they're thinned out.

In the second picture, this is a shoot I brought in from outside. It was just floating while I was working in the tank, but got sucked to the AquaClear tube. The lighting sucked so it turned out WAY too dark. You can still notice how full it is though and how dark the color is.

 

[greenmaji]

I think I would definitely try increasing the surface aggitation...

 

[FMJnaX]

I'm currently waiting for it to evap or until Saturday, but...

Up until 2 weeks ago when I started my minimal agitation experiment, I had plenty of agitation. I have an AquaClear 200 and a Penguin 100 HOB. My water level is typically a good 1-2" below the lowest part of the outlets. After a week of evap, it would get closer to 3-4". It usually has enough force that the bubbles come within inches of the substrate.

I'm going to get it back to this point (or close to it) and see what it does. I doubt anything at all, but it's free and worth a shot. Plus, I miss the gentle water noise. lol

 

[czcz]

From what I can make out, the second pic is maybe the bushiest anacharis I've ever seen. Anacharis kept in low light typically looks like the first pic. I think its simply a case where one enviornment provides optimal growth and the other slow growing -- I think your line of thinking is dead on. I'll bet moving to +1wpg territory will yield good results. I think the 4 degree temp difference plays a factor in bushiness, as I've also found it grows thicker at the low-mid 70s than high 70s.

Do your goldfish snack on anacharis? Ours does.

 

[FMJnaX]

Well, I went to a few new fish shops today in search of some lighting/hoods/bulbs/whatever.... and found NOTHING.

In one place I took a glance at the goldfish tank and left almost immediately. They had about 7 fancies in a 10 gallon tank. 2 were dead: one stuck to the filter and the other bloated and floating. Appeared to be dropsy. Every single fish in the tank had raised scaled and pop-eye. When the attendant asked if I had any questions, I asked why they were keeping a tank full of dropsy and still selling. He said dropsy wasn't contagious or a big deal. I asked if they ever cleaned their tanks after a breakout kills all their fish. He replied 'no, we just add a different species of fish'.

In the other, the fish looked excellent, but was short on variety. Mainly a cichlid fish store, which is why I went there anyway.

So anyway, I really went shopping to find a new bulb. Neither place had 24" bulbs so I was S.O.L. there. I was also looking for a background... both had a background, but I wasn't going to pay $2.99 per foot when I wasn't going to buy anything else (it's only $1.00 at the PetsMart down the road). I also checked out their plants, but they were null. A billions plants sold as "assorted". No tags and nobody knew what most of them were.

Today was a big waste of my time (aside from looking at the cichlids). I'll try again tomorrow I suppose.

 

[greenmaji]

The walmart here in town has 24" bulbs.. They have the GE Plant and Aquarium one but Im not sure if they have the 6500K daylight ones in 24".
Bad news about the pet stores though..

 

[FMJnaX]

Ya know, sometimes I just want to say that I've seen better fish at Wal-Mart. I live in a decent sized city (Albuquerque - roughly 500,000). There are only 4 or 5 actual pet stores, 1 marine store, 3 PetCo's, 2 PetsMarts, and a ton of Wal-Marts. I've now been to 4 of the 5 pet stores. Of them (Clark's), only 1 I would take my hard earned money too. The 5th pet store in town is actually the other Clark's so I'm sure I would take my money there too. I'm just not happy with the selection here. In fact, the best place in town is actually a PetsMart. Prestine fish and aquariums. They don't mix fish or overstock as much as the other places. They also do minor special orders.

But anyway, the point at hand is that I cannot find true aquarium bulbs anywhere. One of the Petco's has them, but wants $20-$25 for a 24" bulb. I may just have to go to Wal-mart and get a GE bulb.

 

[hashbaz]

I have found on-line to be the best place for lights. Unless you want the GE bulbs from walmart. Which are even cheeper. I think my next bulbs will be from Walmart. If I don't like them, I'm only out about $5.

I have had anacharis in low light tanks for many years. It always comes from the pet shop very dense and bushy. Then grows very thin (exactly like yours). I would bet that at the greenhouse where the anacharis is grown, they use high light and CO2. Then they sell it to the pet shop and the pet shop sells it before it has a chance to grow thin.

 

[czcz]

Most home improvement stores (ie OSH, ACE, HD, neighborhood home brew stores) sell 24" T12 bulbs.