very brittle and glassy leaves - the slimy green algae thrives though

[xyyz]

here are the parameters:

substrate - seachem's flourite (several years old)

temp - 80-83F
ammonia - 0ppm
nitrites - 0ppm
(the tank finally cycled!!! )
nitrates - 10ppm
ph - 6.8-7 (slowly drops to 6.4)
gH - >300ppm
kH - 40ppm
lighting - (2 x powerglo 24w t5 bulbs, 1 x 14W unknown generic aquarium bulb > 10,000k)

i don't have any CO2 generation.

i have... rather HAD a really thick/lush planted aquarium initially. other than the amazon swords, and some underwater ferns, and one of those onion plants, i don't know of the other plants. (i'll take pictures in a bit.)

unfortunately, those plants don't survive too long, or in the case of the plants with large broad leaves, the large leaves become transparent and yellow, and the new leaves are thin and long. even the new leaves are glassy. with another plant with thick leaves, the roots rot away, never grow back, and the new leaves are curled.

while the smaller amazon swords do well with their roots, the larger ones, along with the other plants do really poorly. i figured the flourite would cause the roots to flourish, but it wasn't the case. as a result, i went out and bought seachem's substrate/gravel fertilizer tabs. i planted about 5 in the area covered by a 29 gallon tank.

oddly enough, i have very healthy algae growth. i don't know what kind of alage, but it's green and extremely slimy. apparently, the angefish love the stuff, but they don't eat nearly enough to keep things clean. the stuff grows everywhere, on the glass, on the filter cascade point (where it thrives), and all over the leaves. it's a pain to clean off of the leaves, and when i do, the leaves tend to break.

in addition to this slimy stuff, i have these really circular, hard, dark green spots all over the glass. it takes much more effort to scape these clean. and when i do, even more are back after a few days.

from what i've found, this is a symptom of a lack of iron; however, i thought this substrate even though it's old, in combination with those tabs, would give the plants the iron.

and ideas how i can solve both of these problems?

 

[newfound77951]

Do you know what the K ratings on the T5s are? And how long are your lights on? If they are all greater than 10000K the plants may not be getting light they can use. But it does sound like you've got some deficiencies. Fluorite will "run out" of nutrients after a few years so you were on the right track with the root tabs. I usually put mine right next to the plant in question and they perk up within a week.

Algae thrives when something's out of whack between light, nutrients and CO2. The hard green algae on the glass and plant leaves (usually called green spot algae) is a sign of low phosphate. Not sure what the other algae is, it kind of sounds like cyano but I doubt the angels would eat that.

I'm sure some of the more expert fert folks will stop in soon....

 

[Purrbox]

What fertilizers are you dosing? Your symptoms sound like macro deficiencies. Most likely you need to start dosing Nitrate, Phosphate, and Potassium. The GSA (hard green algae on the glass) is a definate symptom of a severe Phosphate algae. Once you start dosing Phosphate, your plants will be able to make use of the Nitrate again. This will most likely cause the Nitrate to bottom out, which is why it probably needs to be dosed as well. Potassium needs to be dosed even in most low light aquariums.

 

[xyyz]

thanks for the replies.

according to the seachem's site, the flourite lasts forever, well not forever, but a really long time. nonetheless, i figured if the roots aren't doing well, something's not right with the substrate.

the T5's are under 10k. i don't have the box right now, but they're well under 10k.

as for the fertilizer, what should i use? the only stuff i see is that tetra stuff.

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

dry ferts is what you want as its much cheaper especially for a med to large tank.

A combo pack from here is a good start.
Fertilizers For The Planted Tank | Ferts

Through my brief reading/learning about ferts and plants. It seems that low light can cause lighter colored plants but also as Joy mentioned macro's can also cause it. So I would start with the ferts and if you find its the lighting, then well when you fix that you will deff need the ferts.

What size tank is it?

 

[xyyz]

the tank's 29 gallons. what about seachem's flourite excel? since i'm a novice, i'm a bit nervous mixing solid fertilizers in an inhabited tank.

 

[Peyton]

When was the last time you changed the bulbs? If they are over a year then replace them. You might be surprised at how much of a difference a bulb change can make.

As others have said already consider a ferts schedule and continue removing as much of the algae as possible.

Don't be scared dosing dry ferts. If you want you can always mix them with a bit of water before you add them to the tank. Excel might help along with the ferts.

 

[Purrbox]

With 62 watts over a 29gallon you have just over medium light. You're driving your plants to grow faster than you're providing nutrients.

Flourish Excel is a carbon supplement that can be used instead of or with CO2 injection. It wouldn't be a bad idea in your aquarium since you are the grey area of needing carbon supplementation with that amount of light.

Most LFS do not carry the macro ferts that you need. While Seachem does make them (Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Phosphorus, Flourish Potassium) you usually have to order them online or have your LFS special order them and they are very dilute so they can get expensive fast on larger aquariums. This is why you were advised to order dry ferts. They can be added dry or mixed into a solution and dosed that way. Chuck's Calculator is a great tool that will help you to determine how much to add to get your desired dose.

 

[xyyz]

i was still not too confident on the dry fertilizers, so i went out and got the seachem macro nutrients. picked em all up including the excel for $25, which wasn't too bad a deal in my book.

today was day one of dosing. any idea how long before i start noticing a change?

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

a couple weeks

As for the excel, it is good at hindering/killing algae(not all types). So if you have some specific areas you want to take care of, turn your filters off to stop water flow. Then take the normal dosage for the tank and suck into a syringe. Then under the water squirt the excel directly on the algae. Turn the filters on after ~15mins and it should greatly hurt the algae.

 

[xyyz]

about using excel as a algaecide, you serious? that's pretty interesting. it's exactly what i'm gonna do during the next dosage.

i thought all this stuff would make the plants use nutrients more efficiently, which would siphon them away from the algae resulting in algae death. but to know it directly kills the stuff, is a nice bonus. thanks.

 

[Purrbox]

Please note that the recommended dosages on the bottles of Flourish are meant for low light aquariums. You may find it necessary to dose for specific levels, in which case you'll need to use the formulas they provide instead of the recommended dosage.

 

[xyyz]

i didnt see these formulas on the bottle. i suppose i'll get these formulas from the seachem website?

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

about using excel as a algaecide, you serious?

Yes its a well noted fact. They cannot legally sell it or add algecide on the label b/c there is a lot of red tape and hoops to jump through/$$ to sell algaecides from what I have read.

Its used a lot for BBA since its hard to get rid of otherwise
Flourish Excel got rid of all my algae - Algae - Aquatic Plant Central

 

[Purrbox]

i didnt see these formulas on the bottle. i suppose i'll get these formulas from the seachem website?

The formulas are on the bottle but VERY easy to miss.

Nitrate:

0.25vn=m, where v= volume of tank in gallons*, n=desired nitrogen increase (if using a “nitrate equivalent” value for “n” then use a factor of 0.05 instead of 0.25 in the formula) and m=volume of product to use in mL. For example to raise 20 gallons* by 0.20 mg/L nitrogen you would use: 0.25*20*0.20=1 mL.

To add 10ppm Nitrate to your 29 gallon aquarium you would dose 75ml of the Flourish Nitrogen.

Phosphate:

0.8vp=m, where v= volume of tank in gallons*, p=desired phosphate increase and m=volume of product to use in mL. For example to raise 20 gallons* to 0.1 mg/L phosphate you would use: 0.8*20*0.1=1.6 mL.

To add 1ppm of Phosphate to your 29 gallon aquarium you would dose 24ml of the Flourish Phosphorus.

Potassium:

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 125 L (30 gallons*). This dose raises potassium by 2 mg/L.

To add 10ppm of Potassium to your 29 gallon aquarium you would dose 25ml of Flourish Potassium.

 

[xyyz]

thanks. i'll use those, but the problem is i don't know how much of these macro elements i outta add, as you mentioned in an earlier post, given the amount of light provided to the plants. what's for formula for figuring this out?

 

[Purrbox]

It all depends on what dosing strategy you decide to follow. You might want to try to dose targeting specific levels. This is a nice starting place for many people. You could also look into a reduced EI schedule for lower light aquariums.

Dose enough to reach 20ppm Nitrate once or twice a week
Dose enough to reach 2ppm Phosphate once or twice a week
Dose 20ppm Potassium once a week (may be split into two doses)
Dose enough Trace for 0.1 - 0.2ppm Iron