Very Strange Fish-in "cycle"- 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrates- heavily planted

[Mumma.of.two]

OK- I think that might decide it for me- I think I'll add 20+ fish- which will be Juvies- on Monday (because its at my office and I'll watch it that week) and take out the 8 Adult Fatheads. They are messy dudes anyway, nibble my plants, and jack my substrate up.

No doubt- I'll keep y'all updated good or bad.

20?! I think you might be pushing it a bit there. What fish are you adding? What happens if the ammonia spikes over the weekend?

LyndaB - a silent cycle is a cycle in a heavily plant tank. The plants consume the ammonia. You can slowly stock the tank more and more as the plants grow and take up more nutrients.

 

[Andysol]

20?! I think you might be pushing it a bit there. What fish are you adding? What happens if the ammonia spikes over the weekend?

LyndaB - a silent cycle is a cycle in a heavily plant tank. The plants consume the ammonia. You can slowly stock the tank more and more as the plants grow and take up more nutrients.

20 small (less than 1") and take out 8 adult fatheads (2.5"). I'm actually going with less size, just more fish. And I won't do it until Monday.

I added 4 more fatheads today, and this Friday I will recheck my ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, do a tiny water change (10 gallons or so), poke the substrate some more to see if an ammonia bubble or two will gas out, and let it set the weekend untested (but I'll have an employee feed them twice each day).

Then on Monday- if I come back and it is still 0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, I'm going to remove the fatheads (12 at that point), do a 30-40% water change/vacuum, and add 8 Cories and either 8 Hatchets or 14 Neons. I also have a couple hand-me-down gouramis (1 Honey, 1 dwarf) I will toss in there too until they get a new home. So 18-24 fish depending if I do the Silver Hatchets or Neons.
Now, if on Monday I come back with a 1 ammonia or some nitrites, I'll be thrilled and obviously won't add fish.

The bottom line is that I will be at 13 days by Monday with no sign of Ammonia, Nitrites, or Nitrates (and I even spiked it with Seachem's Synthesis Yesterday which is a Nitrate). I'm just replacing the fatheads (in perfect water) with Stocked tropical fish (that will still be in perfect water). If you think I'm nuts, tell me. But again- I'm taking OUT the fatheads- not adding 20 fish TO them.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Ok can I suggest you buy some elodea or hornwort to float on the waters surface? Another safety precaution. If they have access to the air above the tank co2 will be more readily available. They will grow faster and help keep the ammonia down. I used hornwort in my tank. Left it there for a good 4 months and it worked well.

 

[skywhitney]

I wouldn't use the Neons. IME they are not good fish to add until the tank is completely established. Someone correct me if i'm wrong please.

I feel your pain on trying to get this tank cycled as i'm going through the same. I have a 67g moderate/heavy planted tank that i'm in the process of trying to cycle but the plants are eating everything before it can establish. I'm going on a month now so don't feel to bad about 13 days

 

[Andysol]

Ok can I suggest you buy some elodea or hornwort to float on the waters surface? Another safety precaution. If they have access to the air above the tank co2 will be more readily available. They will grow faster and help keep the ammonia down. I used hornwort in my tank. Left it there for a good 4 months and it worked well.

I hate Hornwort with a passion- but thats a great idea for being temporary (particularly for the Gouramis). I'm getting a really cool looking floating plant that must have hitchhiked on my other plants. 3 of them- Tiny- looks like a clover with little roots below them. They look like dwarf baby tears- but I don't believe they are. I'll get a pic later. I want some floating plants before I add the Hatchets anyway, so hornwort (although I hate it) would be a great placeholder.

I wouldn't use the Neons. IME they are not good fish to add until the tank is completely established. Someone correct me if i'm wrong please.

I feel your pain on trying to get this tank cycled as i'm going through the same. I have a 67g moderate/heavy planted tank that i'm in the process of trying to cycle but the plants are eating everything before it can establish. I'm going on a month now so don't feel to bad about 13 days

Therein lies my problem. Panda Cories, Hatchets, Otos, Gouramis, Neons are all weak little guys and like established tanks. The Bolivian Rams are probably the most hardy- but I want everyone else settled before they get added, because I don't have a good selection for a mated pair, so I will likely have some trial and error there.

So now I'm in the conundrum of which sensitive species do I put in? At least the Neons are easier to get and cheaper than the Hatchets (I know thats a crappy way to look at it, but in reality- I'm not going to put 40 Danios in there or 35 Fatheads in preparation).

I'll just add them Monday and monitor it like a hawk. The Neons I can get from an established tank at $1/per too..... so thats kind of where I'm leaning (with the $3/pandas). Neons are such small bioload, as are the Pandas (and only 2 Gouramis), so I'm hoping thats in my favor- then, I'll remove the Gouramis when I add the Hatchets in a couple weeks.

I think I have it figured out, so I'll keep close observance and let ya'll know.

 

[Andysol]

Just noticed the floating plant was Duckweed. No Thanks- cya.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Just noticed the floating plant was Duckweed. No Thanks- cya.

Lol! It hitchhiked into my 70g. Hated it with a passion! Then it made its way into my 8g Betta tank. The Betta liked it so it stayed. Noticed my black skirts love the stuff. They cleared the 70g in weeks. I now add it for them to munch on!

 

[Andysol]

Added 5 Ottos today because I'm getting hair algae all over the place (pretty good sign). The fatheads keep trying to nip at them on occasion so I'm hoping that settles down- otherwise- they're gone. First time I've ever seen anything try to go after an Oto. Fatheads are gluttons and the Otos are little (little enough to eat though), so maybe they want to eat just a little of them at a time..... But- the Otos are faster and have a billion places to hide until the Fatheads (hopefully) get used to them.

Had a tiny bit of ammonia today (a .2 on a meter) so did a little (20%) change- but more importantly a vacuum and netting of dead stuff. I haven't changed any water in 10 days and the fatheads are very messy (poop)- so hoping after this weekend the ottos are all still ok. We'll see, but I'm a little nervous. Monday- I'll know.

 

[aqua_chem]

Otos don't eat hair algae.

 

[Andysol]

..... Crap

It's more like a very very light green (almost white) fuzz on my broad leaf plants and driftwood/rocks

 

[aqua_chem]

Im not sure what kind of algae you're describing. Otos might eat something like that, but they might not. They mostly just like algae and soft green algaes.

 

[BBradbury]

Algae Problems

Added 5 Ottos today because I'm getting hair algae all over the place (pretty good sign). The fatheads keep trying to nip at them on occasion so I'm hoping that settles down- otherwise- they're gone. First time I've ever seen anything try to go after an Oto. Fatheads are gluttons and the Otos are little (little enough to eat though), so maybe they want to eat just a little of them at a time..... But- the Otos are faster and have a billion places to hide until the Fatheads (hopefully) get used to them.

Had a tiny bit of ammonia today (a .2 on a meter) so did a little (20%) change- but more importantly a vacuum and netting of dead stuff. I haven't changed any water in 10 days and the fatheads are very messy (poop)- so hoping after this weekend the ottos are all still ok. We'll see, but I'm a little nervous. Monday- I'll know.

Andy...

You're getting a lot of good advice. Hope you have some way of cataloging everything. The hair algae or any other type is good eating for the "Ramshorn" snails. I've had them in my planted tanks for years since I didn't rinse all of them off some plants I got from the local pet store. I'm glad I have them, they're algae eating machines. The only problem is, they multiply faster than my Fancy Guppies. They thrive in slightly "brackish" water, so they're great in my "Livebearer" tanks. They don't just consume algae. They'll eat dead plant and fish material and keep your tank spotless, but leave anything that's healthy alone. I have no visible algae in any of my tanks.

Just a thought since you brought up the subject. Above everything else, have fun!

B

 

[skywhitney]

Nerite snails are also a good snail to have, and they won't breed in fw.

 

[Andysol]

Nerite snails are also a good snail to have, and they won't breed in fw.

I love the benefit of snails- particularly MTS, but I hate the look of them. Although- I might do the MLS and just control their population with the lettuce/cucumber trick.

I was actually planning on a single nerite (so I wouldn't get any eggs- those are impossible to remove from plants). Plus- nerites will eat any algae known to man. . But one in a 55 gallon won't do much. I'm hoping between the plants, Otos, 1 nerite, and several cherry shrimp, I can keep any algae at bay. It also helps I'm in a room with zero windows.