What do you guys think of this co2 article?

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resiak

Aquarium Advice Regular
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Mar 16, 2006
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http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9610/msg00228.html

One thing I cannot understand is why some CO2 regulators have two pressure gauges, CO2 is a liquid in the bottle and so the input pressure gauge will read the same pressure untill the bottle is completely empty, at which time it will fall to 0. You will know this anyway, as no gas will escape when you open the valve.

So only buy a regulator with a gauge on the output side of the regulator as a gauge on the input side is a waste of time. (and money)

In the article he talks about a dual gauge regulator being a waste; is this true?

What do you think of the rest of the info in the article?

Also, what do you think the best way to obtain a co2 tank and a regulator is? Rent or buy? If you rent a co2 tank does it usually come with a regulator?


Thanks for your time,
Dan
 
As to whether or not the dual gauge is a waste, that depends on whether you can actually get any cost savings by finding a regulator with only an output gage. Since it's the standard to have the other gage present, you may actually end up paying more to find one without it. He is accurate in that the gauge will read full until the bottle is empty, with no in between readings.

For the most part I would say that the information is pretty solid although it is definately heavily opinionated. Not necessarily bad opinions, just only his take on CO2.

Whether it's better to rent or buy really depends on your area. Price out both options and find out which is the better option for you. Just make sure that if you purchase your tank, you know whether or not they're going to be swapping tanks or refilling your tank. If they insist on swapping tanks and that's a problem for you, you may be better off renting. Either way you'll need to purchase your own regulator, although I suppose it might be possible to rent that too.
 
A dual gauge regulator is NOT a waste...far from it.

While the internal tank pressure does indeed go from 900psi to 0psi rather quickly, its not instantaneous.

In other words, the external gauge will tell you when you have 24-48 hours of CO2 left, so that you can schedule a trip to get it refilled, instead of running out completely and being caught with your pants down and no refill plan.

I've never heard of anyone renting a regulator. Even if you could, it wouldn't have a needle valve, so you'd have to install one on their property, and I really don't think they'd appreciate that.

Pressurized CO2 costs a few $$...no way around it unless you somehow win or inherit a full system.
 
Thanks for clarifying Malkore. This is the first time that I've seen someone mention that there is a decline in pressure when the tank is nearly out. It's alway just commented on that you can't tell how much CO2 is left since the gauge always reads full.
 
Yeah, the only way you can really watch a CO2 tank is to know the empty weight of the cylinder (tare weight) and then you can do basic math to determine how many lbs of liquid CO2 is left.

Still won't tell you exactly how long it'll last, but if you knew you were down to a half pound, it'd be more helpful for scheduling a refill, as you'd still likely have a couple weeks worth of CO2 left. At the very least, the sudden decrease in internal cylinder pressure wouldn't be so surprising.

Since weighing, or keeping it on a scale isn't too feasible for most people, having that internal gauge is as good as you're going to get. I've had to do many refills for CO2, and when I usually notice it is when I either hear lots of bubbles crashing on the impeller of my HOB (upstairs 20gal tanks) or I see way too many bubbles in the vortex reactor downstairs. I'll check my milwaukee regulator, and sure enough, i'm usually down to 400psi at that point.
luckily i can get my tank swapped on saturday mornings, or I can just make it there during my lunch hour on a weekday.
 
When i first hooked up my milwaukee regulator, like so many others, i blew out the low pressure gauge. I called milwaukee to see if i could order a replacement. Unfortunatly they told me that can't be replaced because of how the threads are put together. Regardless, the guy at milwaukee said that they were trying to convience the company to go to a single guage model to bring down costs. He explained that the low pressure guage is pointless as people will open the valve and adjust flow rate via the needle valve. Makes since to me, I havn't had a working low pressure guage for some time and I don't think I would even need it. The only reason they haven't done away with that guage is because they think that it could possibly make their product unmarketable, or it wouldn't be up to par with their competition. This is from their mouth, not mine.
 
I'm sure they do want to lower their manufacturing cost. For them, its dollars and cents. For us, its losing a feature many of us like.

Only reason you'd blow the low pressure gauge is by having the regulator valve open when you open the cylinder valve. The instructions for setup do state not to do this or you'll damage the regulator.
 
LOL... i wasn't blaming them for this happening... the main valve on my CO2 regulator was fully open, I don't know why, i had taken it off and on so many times I forgot, when I was putting the regulator on the tank my monkey wrench hit the tank valve and opened it... you get the rest. Like I said, they stated that most people open up the main tank valve until the flow rate is about right, then fine tune it by the needle valve utilizing the bubble counter. That is how I have always done it too, since i have never had a working low pressure gauge, and I see no problems with it.

Sure the low pressure guage would be helpful to get the right pressure on the needle valve, im only saying it isn't really necessary.
 
The article is correct to a degree. The fall from 900PSI (Liquid Co2's Boiling pressure) to 0 is not instantaneous as already stated. It takes a couple of days. However as also stated. a digital scale that is zero'd to the weight of the tank itself. This will tell you how many lbs (and ounces if you have a precise enough scale) are left in the tank.

The second guage (High pressure) also serves another purpose which may become apparent if your tank is near a window. it will read off the pressure of the tank, This can easily exceed 1400PSI if the tank is in the sun and risks blowing out the burst disk located on the back of the CGA320 fitting and emptying the tank very quickly. So you get to see if the tank is getting too warm.. but for someone like me that keeps it in the basement it only serves 1 purpose. let me know when it's time to get it filled back up. (short notice, but still notice)

Milwaukee should just flip to a fixed regulator @ 25lbs and use no guages, They could inlude a pressure drop indicator (simple red/green button type device) taht would let you know to get it filled.. save lots of money that they would hopefully pass on to the consumer.
 
sorry Jcarl, I didn't mean to imply anything about you or your habits.
I am one of those people who's extremely anal retentive about certain things...I probably border on OCD at times. I practically remove the adjustment knob on my milwaukee's every time I get a refill, out of paranoia of blowing the gauge.

Wiz, I for one dislike fixed output regulators. I dunno why...I guess its part of my control/OCD issue. I want precision control if I'm paying $70 for a regulator. Otherwise I'd spend $30 on a beveridge grade regulator and toss any ole needle valve on there.

Technically, neither is more correct or flawed. I prefer having the choice though.
JBJ regulators are on par with Milwaukee quality, but have a fixed pressure, and a built in check valve.
 
Fair enough. Then release a lower cost option as mentioned and still offer the one that is currently available.

I haven't adjusted or touched my regulator since the day I dialed it into 25psi. I do adjust the needle valve.
 
This is all very interesting, I wasn't aware that the pressure gauge will read the same amount until it falls to 0, and all this time I thought that I still had 50 lbs of CO2 in my tank and wondering why it wasn't going down. What happens when it does fall to 0, will it just stop and what is tank dump now that we're on the subject? Does this happen when the pressure gauge falls to 0 and will it ruin my tank and kill my fish? I've heard about it but never really understood what it was and what caused it.

What are some of the signs to look for when that 24 to 48 hour window is here? I don't have my CO2 going into the impeller of my HOB filter, I'm using a Hagen Ladder at the moment while waiting for a ceramic/glass difuser that I recently purchased, so I won't hear the knocking of the bubbles.

Linda
 
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