What's wrong with my plants?

[hbeth82]

Upgraded the lighting system in my 55gal a few months ago and although plants started to look better at first, leaves on some of the amazon swords are beginning to turn yellow, develop lots of tiny holes, and die, while other plants like the anubias nana and cabomba are covered with heavy black algae. Since this came after upping the lighting (had 2x15W bulbs previously), I thought it might be too little CO2 but judging by descriptions of typical aquatic plant problems, sounds more like I'm missing potassium, phosphorus, or magnesium, or maybe all three. Unfortunately I can't find any sites that have pictures to match the descriptions.

Tank stats are, more or less, as follows:
water temp = 76 - 78
nitrate < 20ppm
lighting = 2x28W T5 fluorescent, one is a 6700k plant bulb
pH = 7 - 7.4
additives = 1.5 capfuls of Flourish (plain stuff, not like Excel) 1x a week

I also use RO/DI water due to high nitrate and hardness levels in my tap water. To bring levels of the good stuff back up, I use baking soda and Kent's RO Right, which gets me to 'soft water' level (GH & KH = 30-50). Also, I do have one large black mystery snail

So, any ideas on what I'm lacking? Can anybody recommend good sites explaining the differences in plant nutrient deficiencies? Think I'd found one a while back but so far, no luck.

Thanks!

 

[Crepe]

Check at this quick reference chart. Aquarium Plant Health Guide looks like a mineral deficiency. Remember, with increased light, plants use more nutrients, you will need to dose ferts.

 

[hbeth82]

Thanks, that helps, as I really didn't want to have to deal with CO2! According that list, looks like I could be lacking phosphate, potassium, magnesium, sulfur, or iron. Can I use the Flourish Trace or should I try each of the additives? Is there another additive that would be better? Hope to get anachris soon so I'll be staying away from Excel.

Also, I can't find anything that explains the little pin-holes in the amazon swords - does that just mean the deficiency has gotten that bad?

 

[Crepe]

Flourish trace is a lie. Go with just plain fluorish micro. Dose phosphates for macro. Co2 should get rid of the algae by letting your plants out compete it ,you should check into it.

 

[neilanh]

I agree, with the higher lighting your plants are demanding more nutrients. Means they like the extra light.

The pinholes in your leaves is a tell-tell of a potassium deficiency. The algae is telling there's a general nutrient imbalance in your tank overall. I'd start by just dosing a little bit of potassium every other day and see how things go. Be careful dosing phosphates, especially if you're not dosing a full regime and not testing for it - high phosphates is an algae nightmare.

Here's where you have to decide what you want to do. You can get into a light fertilizing routine to keep them happy, or back off on the lighting a bit to prevent the extra work.

How long of a photoperiod are you running? You could also reduce this some to lessen the load on your tank.

 

[hbeth82]

Thanks! Leaning towards cutting down on the lighting a bit (12 hours now) and adding some nutrients. So, try adding some potassium and phosphates, and possibly CO2? For dosing the potassium, would it work to add the recommended dosage over the course of several days, like 1/4 capful instead of full cap? Same for the phosphates or less? How soon could I expect the plants to improve? I don't want to start over-doing the dosing before the plants have a chance to respond.

Excess phosphates cause the long, stringy red algae, right? Just realized that in the past some would build up on the outflow from the filters but that I haven't had that problem since upgrading the lighting, but now that makes sense!

Many thanks!!!

 

[neilanh]

Depends - what potassium are you planning to use to dose?

I wouldn't recommend dosing phosphates just yet, either. There's several types of algaes that will thrive in high-phosphate environments that are very difficult to control. Potassium, however, only helps the plants and is a lot less prone to algae issues.

12 hours is a long day. You can easily cut that back to 10 or even 8. You can do a mid-day lights out period too if you really want the lights on morning and evening when you're home.

 

[hbeth82]

Planning on Flourish's potassium additive, for no other reason than having heard other people speak very highly of the Flourish line. Haven't bought anything yet so I'm open to suggestions if something else might be cheaper or more effective. Forgot to mention, I'm also adding LeafZone but starting to think it's just brown tap water, just trying to use up the bottle.

Guess cutting out some of the lighting when I'm not typically home will likely be the best, as the 50W+ makes a great alarm clock and I don't usually relax enough to enjoy the tank until late in the evening.

Thanks!

 

[Purrbox]

I would not recommend using Flourish Potassium on as large a tank as yours. It's much to dilute to be cost effective. Instead go to you grocery store and pick up some NoSalt (KCL - Potassium Chloride) for your dosing. It's much more cost effective.

 

[An t-iasg]

Moved from the Aquascaping forum to the Planted Tank forum.

 

[hbeth82]

Instead go to you grocery store and pick up some NoSalt (KCL - Potassium Chloride) for your dosing. It's much more cost effective.

Awesome, thanks! From what I can find, looks like it would be in the spice / salt area of the store, right? Also, any idea how much I should dose per 10 gallons?

 

[Purrbox]

There are any number of fertilizer calculators out there. Chuck's Calculator (though his site doesn't appear to be available anymore) and Fertilator on Aquatic Plant Central are a couple of popular ones. You'll want to dose enough for 20ppm for the week. You can do this all at once after the water change, or split it into several smaller doses throughout the week.

 

[hbeth82]

Huh, some how I never considered that there would be online tools for that, nifty! I was able to find the Fertilator, as well as a similar tool on theaquatools.com, and both suggested about the same amount for my tank, 8 grams or 1.5tsp for 55 gallons. Awesome tools, thanks for the suggestion!

Also, another, likely stupid question - dosing with the potassium after a water change is the same as dosing with Prime or salt, you only add enough to make up for what was taken out in the water change, so I'd just dose for 18 or so gallons, right?

Thanks!!!

 

[Purrbox]

Since the plants are using the nutrients in that aquarium you would dose the full amount.

 

[hbeth82]

That makes sense - the plants would be absorbing it and thus the whole 8g or so would be depleted. Thanks for all your help, just gave the first dose of KCl (no-salt) today so hopefully in a few weeks I'll be able to post some improvement - update pix!

 

[timtan69]

Try 2 things initially:

Increase Potassium
Increase current flow

It looks like the algae is taking up the nutrients cos the plants aren't. Potassium is a key ingredient for nutrient intake. Also, water circulation is critical to get the nutrients to spread out throughout the tank. I would not dose micro nutrients just yet as it seems that there is plenty to nourish the algae.

You might want to consider staggering out the light periods. Algae likes long periods of light. Splitting the lighting period to a 4hr/2hr/4hr system might reduce their presence initially so that your plants can get some head-start on the nutrient intake. Alternatively, you can consider a 2day black out to kill some of the algae before starting of the potassium regime. Physical removal of the algae can also help. Once the plants get the advantage, the algae will slowly disappear.

 

[timtan69]

One more thing, swords need iron to grow well. It might make sense to insert iron and micro ferts into the soil (reduce escape into water where it might cause an algae bloom). In fact, inserting in-gravel ferts might help some of the rooted plants get the nutrients they need when they can't get them from the water from algae competition.

 

[scoach1999]

Upgraded the lighting system in my 55gal a few months ago and although plants started to look better at first, leaves on some of the amazon swords are beginning to turn yellow, develop lots of tiny holes, and die, while other plants like the anubias nana and cabomba are covered with heavy black algae. Since this came after upping the lighting (had 2x15W bulbs previously), I thought it might be too little CO2 but judging by descriptions of typical aquatic plant problems, sounds more like I'm missing potassium, phosphorus, or magnesium, or maybe all three. Unfortunately I can't find any sites that have pictures to match the descriptions.

Tank stats are, more or less, as follows:
water temp = 76 - 78
nitrate < 20ppm
lighting = 2x28W T5 fluorescent, one is a 6700k plant bulb
pH = 7 - 7.4
additives = 1.5 capfuls of Flourish (plain stuff, not like Excel) 1x a week

I also use RO/DI water due to high nitrate and hardness levels in my tap water. To bring levels of the good stuff back up, I use baking soda and Kent's RO Right, which gets me to 'soft water' level (GH & KH = 30-50). Also, I do have one large black mystery snail

So, any ideas on what I'm lacking? Can anybody recommend good sites explaining the differences in plant nutrient deficiencies? Think I'd found one a while back but so far, no luck.

Thanks!

You need three things to make your plants flourish. First: Enough light. You don't have enough light. I ran 4X60 watts on my 55 gallon, and that was enough light. Secondly, CO2. You have CO2, but are you using enough? Third is nutrient, mostly in the water column, but you also need to have nutrient in the substrait. You can use Jobe's Fern sticks -- broken into thirds and stuck around in the substrait. Also, if you use too much RO/de-ionized water, you may not have enough mineral stabilization in your water. A certain amount of mineral stabilization is essential. Is your CO2 getting properly disolved into the water and then introduced in the tank down near the bottom? Even properly dissolved CO2 is a lighter-than-water gas, and makes its way to the surface, so introducing it at the bottom of the tank at least gets it more exposure to the plants. Do you have enough water circulation to eliminate "dead spots" that might prevent nutrients from moving around your plants? The above advice is from my experience with my tank. I had to remove about a bowling ball sized amount of new plant growth every week just to see my fish. Plants were very healthy. Fish were very healthy. No algae issues.

Check some of the desired regimens for planted tanks in Takashi Amano's books. If you buy all three, you'll have everything you ever wanted to know at your fingertips.

I hope that helps.

Steve