Wisteria not gaining height

[bman]

I have had some wisteria growing wildly in my tank for several months. As it grows, I have been pinching off the tops, leaving the stems behind to regrow and sticking the tops in the gravel to grow new plants.

This plant is SOOOOooo easy grow, and to multiply.

My problem is though, the new topped plants are not growing up toward the light. The new growth is very compact, meaning the internodes are very close together, and the plants stems tend to grow more horizontal.

This is nice now, because I have a carpet of wisteria, that stays less the two inches high!

My question though, why are these plants not growing straight like when I purchased them? When they were bought, they had nice straight 5 inch stems. Does this behavior mean my lights are too strong?

I'm not sure what my wpg is, and I'm guessing it's around medium - 2.5 wpg. I have a 20 gallon long, with a 4 foot double tube no fluorescent light that overhangs at least 6 inches on each side. I have replaced the std bulbs with Florasun 5000k bulbs. I also have a 18" fluorescent on there as well, that has an old grow light bulb as well.

I dose excel daily, about 2 ml. Potassium once a week, other than pwcs weekly. I also dose iron after pwc. I also have about four root tabs spaced out somewhere under the substrate. My nitrates have been hanging around 20, ph 7.0.

 

[Meredith]

Before I started having super algae problems and then the leaves started turning yellow, mine did that too. I had the tall ones I got from the store and a whole bunch of off shoots that stayed very low. I don't know why it does that.

 

[7Enigma]

What is your phosphate level?

It's definately not too high a light. I have 65w CF on my 20 gallon high and my trimmings from my wisteria grows just as the original plant did, that is quickly, branching off, but heading for the surface.

Unless you've created a strange strain, I think its a nutrient deficiency. While your CO2 could be somewhat higher, wisteria will grow well at those levels.

 

[Skyrmir]

Another thing to consider is that you may have trained your plant. I know my lily's can be trained to grow short if I just keep trimming the shoots that go for the surface. It might be possible that your wysteria has figured it if it grows up, it gets cut off, so it quit growing up.

On the other hand I've also noticed with my Wysteria that actinic light promotes a short bushy growth and the more red shifted 'plant' lights cause a taller growth. Same tank, same water, changed the lights around a bit and noticed the differences.

 

[czcz]

I've never grown it as a carpet, but Travis and Shalu have used Wisteria as such under very high light. I think your assumption may be correct. What are the specs of your bulb? Do you get red from the top of the leaf of L. repens? If the compact sword is H. corymbosa "Compacta," do you get a blush of pink at the top of the leaf?

 

[bman]

czcz - I do get red from the top of the l. repens. The compact sword is new to the tank, and is Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica'.

The main dual tube lights are "Florasun" Max plant growth bulbs. 5000K high intensity lamp with peak emissions in the blue and red regions to maximize the photobiological processes in plants.

Skyrmir - I don't know about training the plants to stay low, even though I do not mind it. The problem is newly topped plants that have been stuck in the substrate stay low.


7Enigma - I do not have a clue what my phosphate level is, I do not have a test kit and can not justify spending $25 for that specific kit when I am not having any deficiencies showing up the plants (Other than the height issue).

I also have a 20 gallon long instead of high, so the distance from the light to the substrate is about 12 - 14 inches.

In my past experiences of growing normal plants indoors, the use of fluorescent lights had to be kept very close to the plants to prevent the plants from reaching for the light. Maybe this is the case, the light may be too close to them?!

 

[7Enigma]

AP makes a phosphate kit that I find to work quite well. Cost me $5 from an online store (Big Al's did NOT carry this product). Just like all their other drip reagent kits. 6 drops of this, 6 drops of this, shake 5seconds, let sit for 3 minutes (something like that).

 

[Purrbox]

BigAls.com actually carries a variety of PO4 test kits, including AP.

 

[7Enigma]

BigAls.com actually carries a variety of PO4 test kits, including AP.

Hmm, must have missed it when I was looking to order the phosphate kit then. My mistake!

 

[czcz]

bman, it sounds like you have pretty decent light. If you like the low growth, suggest continuing with your current methods and seeing if the new tops creep around and make the carpet a little denser. How about putting a couple tops in shaded areas of the tank and seeing what happens?

Are you considering other plant species? If so inclined, you could probably do cool stuff with something like Stargrass - H. zosterfolia - if you wanted to.

 

[bman]

Unfortunately, I do not have "Shady" spots in my tank. (How do you create those?) Even if I did, the wisteria has already covered most of the floor.

I am always considering other plant species, but trips to the lfs are usually disappointing with their plant selections. Actually, the last trip they just got in some nice plants, and I picked up a compact sword. I am looking for some plants that can grow tall, and maybe be redder in color to the green blanket of wisteria.

My L. repens is not doing well at all. I topped it several weeks ago to get it to multiply, but instead ALL of that type are now slowly dying. That was a nice tall plant when I got it.

 

[czcz]

You'd need the tall or floating plants to create shade. Didn't consider it might be hard since the fixture overhangs on the sides.

If L. repens is dying then something is wrong. Agree you should address phosphate. Are the other plants growing? Do they show nutrient deficiency?

 

[bman]

What does a phosphate deficiency look like?

Taking a hard look at my plants, the wisteria has some browning around the edges of some leaves. The L. repens has been growing, and growing new off shoots, but the parts that I pinched to make new ones, are slowly dying from the top down toward the base, even though the base is growing those off-shoots. The parrots feather seems to be adapting well, as this was just planted this past weekend, no new growth, but no signs of dying either.

I can't remember when I put the plant tabs in. Checking my journal, it was december 27th. I may have to jam a few more in there this weekend. I'll look around for a phosphate test kit in the meantime, but like I stated earlier, the ones at the lfs are expensive. I may have to order one from Big Al.

 

[czcz]

Here's two great references:
http://www.aquariaplants.com/plantdeficiencies.htm
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

It looks like the dark red stems are emersed growth, and you shouldn't worry about them dying. FWIW, I prefer snipping submerged growth from emersed stems early, then repeating until the emersed stem dies. Better and easy to propogate off your current stems than to get new L. repens.

Assuming your phosphate input is through feeding, you could increase frequency and observe plant reaction to narrow it down. This is not the cautious approach because you'll also be increasing NO3 and organics, but is an option as you hold off on the PO4 test. Another is to dose phosphate from KH2PO4/K2HPO4 or Fleet Enema (addressed in both sites above) with regular water changes, so you know you're meeting the P requirement without levels running away from you. (This is effectively the Estimative Index approach to dosing.)

HTH. Sorry my posts in your thread have been all over the place due to confusion. Interested in continuing to read other's advice.

 

[bman]

This is a pic of the wisteria field.

I don't know how I could have emmersed growth, as this plant has been underwater for at least amonth. The dark red stems are already the dead part of the plant, no life there.

 

[czcz]

To clarify, you have some stems that are clearly submersed growth in the L. repens pic (the green-top-of-the-leaf stems). I'm suggesting the stems you started with were grown emersed, but if you grew those dark red stems and they aren't the bottoms of the stems you started with, their dying would indicate macro deficiency.

 

[Friendly]

Yeah for some reason I'm having the same problem.

What I also don't understand is why roots start to appear way up at the top of the plant. It kind of looks like the roots are dragging the plant down.

 

[bman]

Friendly - Yeah I have the same problem. I have read that plants will form those roots when the substrate does not have enough nutrients or the nutrients in the water are greater than the those in the substrate.

I have pinched them off and also left some on and noticed no difference.

How much light do you have, and what size tank?

czcz - I would like to cut off the new growth and use that but the new growth is only about 1/2 to 1 inch long and I don't think it's ready for the cutting. If this behavior means a macro def. I wonder if l. repens needs higher levels of nitrates than 20. I used to dose nitrates and got strong growth form the wisteria (Still no upward growth though). But then my nitrate level jumped to about 80 and I thought that should get lowered.

 

[Friendly]

Friendly - Yeah I have the same problem. I have read that plants will form those roots when the substrate does not have enough nutrients or the nutrients in the water are greater than the those in the substrate.

I have pinched them off and also left some on and noticed no difference.

How much light do you have, and what size tank?

I have been putting in root tabs, but maybe I haven’t been putting them close enough to the wisteria. I'm gonna try put some directly underneath to see what happens.

I have a 75g tank with 130w of pc (6700k) lighting and 60w of fluorescent (18000k) lighting