Ziggy's Corner Planter

[neilanh]

I'm afraid that trickle and sump is going to offgas all of your CO2.

 

[Ziggy953]

That trickle filter is brilliant. I can't wait to watch this as this build progresses!

Thanks! I can't take credit for the design, it is copied from many others.

Do the drawers leak out the sides at all? I've been considering drawers like this for a future sump build, but I wasn't sure if the drawers would leak, so I was looking at Snapware instead. That way I wouldn't have to leave room to the side in the sump to get at the drawers.

Is the filter noisy?

The drawer with the sponge in it (3rd drawer) leaks a little in the front but the others do not. I'm going to add a 4th drawer and that will hold the sponge. These are very small drawers 5"x7". They are in a 10G tank so I had to go smaller to accommodate limited space. Larger drawer stacks like this can be used if you have more space and eliminate any leaking. When the door is shut for the cabinet the only sound I can hear is the overflow. I'm going to fix that too.

What a Minute want happen with making that into a Corner Reef?????

I am not allowed to do a SW tank in my apartment according to property management.

I'm afraid that trickle and sump is going to offgas all of your CO2.

Solutions?

 

[neilanh]

This is why we don't typically recommend the use of a sump system with a planted tank - to avoid the CO2 offgassing.

Your situation is obviously unique in that you have what you have, so we'll have to do a little trial and error to figure it out. Once the tank is setup and the CO2 is flowing, we'll be able to monitor the CO2 level and make adjustments.

Off the top of my head you'll want to do whatever you can to minimize the splashing in the sump to minimize the offgassing. If it were me, as cool as your trickle filter is I'd get rid of it in lieu of minimizing CO2 loss.

Minimizing the flow rate on the return pump might help a bit as well.

The last option is to just crank the CO2 in the DT to overcome the losses. This results in more frequent refills on the CO2 tank, however.

 

[Ziggy953]

I can virtually eliminate any splash in the trickle. By adding the 4th drawer and putting the sponge there the water will just flow through filter floss carbon and into the sponge which in the 4th drawer will be sitting in the water. Do you think that would help?? My filtration is going to be limited no matter what I do unless I set it up where the drain line dumps under water but then there will be the bubble issue. hmmm I guess I need to do some reading on CO2 and how it works in a tank.

 

[neilanh]

Give it a try and see how it goes, we can always make tweaks.

As for how CO2 works, it's identical to oxygen exchange: When you create agitation in the water that contacts the air, the gas levels in the water (O2, N2, CO2, etc) will equalize with what's in the air you're mixing with. It's the same concept.

In planted tanks, we inject CO2 to create a CO2 rich environment (greater than what is in the air) to promote better growth and color in the plants. The higher Co2 levels promotes more photosynthesis from the plants, which also causes them to consume nutrients (nitrates, phosphates, potassiums, etc - all the stuff that we dose into the tank) faster to feed the whole photosynthesis process. This again promotes better growth and color in the plants, as well as consumes the nutrients before algaes can get to them (hence why many algaes can be corrected by increasing CO2 levels).

If we spend our effort and money to create a CO2 rich environment (equipment, CO2 refills, etc) and then allow for high levels of gas exchange to occur, we're spending money for no reason. Pumping CO2 in that's just offgassing out yields no benefit if the amount in <= the amount out.

I hope that made sense.

 

[Ziggy953]

Makes perfect sense.

Because this is a RR tank I'm going to have that problem no matter what I do with the overflow and constant surface agitation. I can lessen that by slowing the flow rate of the mag. I know that FW planted does not need flow so I can crank the return WAY back and just keep the water from sitting still. For that matter I can put it on a timer and have it run for a period of time just to filter the tank and then shut off. I have some very small powerheads I can put in the tank to keep things from getting stagnant. What do you think of that???

 

[neilanh]

Good plan, that's what I was eluding too earlier with minimizing the flow rate on the return pump.

You do want some filtration, it does help. And you do wnat the water moving to spread the CO2 around the entire tank. Small powerheads are good for that too.

 

[Ziggy953]

Headed to Lowes. I need a shut-off valve to put on the pump. Should be a simple thing. The mag 5 is the smallest return pump I have. It's really moving the water too. I knew I was going to have to throttle it way back but hadn't gotten to that stage yet.

What would you recommend for flow rate? The smallest powerhead I have pushes 60gph.

 

[libbyb]

I'm going to approach this as I would a reef and go as natural as possible. The trickle I put together will do fine for now. I'm planning modification later. Right now the tank is cycling. I have the substrate in and the water. Thats pretty much all that's going on.

A good friend has offered me his CO2 system (bubble counter and all that mess) along with his DIY fert doser, driftwood and some rocks.

I'm going to be doing a high light planted tank so ferts and co2 are in the mix. (see above)

Lighting is going to be LEDs. I already have 20 1w cree LEDs that were going to light my reef, now they are going to give plants a go. The white LEDs are 6500K and should do just fine for lighting this tank. I plan to increase to a total of 48 with a higher white/blue ratio. I know blue doesn't do much for plant growth but it makes the fish colors pop.

BTW- this tank is Reef Ready so it has a built in overflow and return. All filtration will happen underneath. Because this is a corner tank I have it, oddly enough, in the corner and I can't have anything hanging on the sides.

Okay, guys. I am following along but I am not familiar with a lot. Like, CO2, flourite, lighting. For example, what is LED? I have what looks like florescent tubes but I don't know what category they fall under. I know they're not incandescent...
I love a planted tank and used to have one and it thrived without all of this stuff. I am not DIY but am mechanically inclined. Like I want CO2 and saw a recipe but how to hook it up, I don't know.
I will follow along and try to keep my questions brief. I hope you don't mind.

 

[libbyb]

Alright ziggy, time to change the avatar

Hey! I like his avatar! It's purple!

 

[libbyb]

Open top. This makes it easier for the plants to grow out of the tank and get you.

LOL!!

 

[libbyb]

Here are some quick pics of the tank thus far. I do not have glass tops for the tank, I was planning reef when I got it and declined taking them. Should I get them?????

Here is my little DIY trickle filter. Three drawers are in use right now. Top one is empty, second one has filter floss in it and the third has sponge. It's set up this way to clear the water and I have to say it worked pretty well. the water looks a little cloudy in the pics because I messed with the sump and it had some build up in it. I'll drain it and clean it out tonight or tomorrow.

Suggestions and recommendations are welcome!!

I do like the corner. Again, I know very little. Where is the sump? Does a pump negate the necessity of a filter, hob or canister? (Talk about DIY using the little plastic drawer thing!)

 

[libbyb]

This is why we don't typically recommend the use of a sump system with a planted tank - to avoid the CO2 offgassing.

Your situation is obviously unique in that you have what you have, so we'll have to do a little trial and error to figure it out. Once the tank is setup and the CO2 is flowing, we'll be able to monitor the CO2 level and make adjustments.

Off the top of my head you'll want to do whatever you can to minimize the splashing in the sump to minimize the offgassing. If it were me, as cool as your trickle filter is I'd get rid of it in lieu of minimizing CO2 loss.

Minimizing the flow rate on the return pump might help a bit as well.

The last option is to just crank the CO2 in the DT to overcome the losses. This results in more frequent refills on the CO2 tank, however.

What's a trickle filter?
What's DT?(not on the acronym list)
So if I had co2, would I have to get rid of my air stone strip and try not to aerate the water when I'm refilling the tank? Offgassing is a waste of co2, I guess. Where does it go? The atmosphere?

I told you I'd have a lot of questions.

 

[libbyb]

I can virtually eliminate any splash in the trickle. By adding the 4th drawer and putting the sponge there the water will just flow through filter floss carbon and into the sponge which in the 4th drawer will be sitting in the water. Do you think that would help?? My filtration is going to be limited no matter what I do unless I set it up where the drain line dumps under water but then there will be the bubble issue. hmmm I guess I need to do some reading on CO2 and how it works in a tank.

ME TOO! If you find a good site, let me know. I work 10-11 hrs a day and don't always have time to search.

 

[libbyb]

Give it a try and see how it goes, we can always make tweaks.

As for how CO2 works, it's identical to oxygen exchange: When you create agitation in the water that contacts the air, the gas levels in the water (O2, N2, CO2, etc) will equalize with what's in the air you're mixing with. It's the same concept.

In planted tanks, we inject CO2 to create a CO2 rich environment (greater than what is in the air) to promote better growth and color in the plants. The higher Co2 levels promotes more photosynthesis from the plants, which also causes them to consume nutrients (nitrates, phosphates, potassiums, etc - all the stuff that we dose into the tank) faster to feed the whole photosynthesis process. This again promotes better growth and color in the plants, as well as consumes the nutrients before algaes can get to them (hence why many algaes can be corrected by increasing CO2 levels).

If we spend our effort and money to create a CO2 rich environment (equipment, CO2 refills, etc) and then allow for high levels of gas exchange to occur, we're spending money for no reason. Pumping CO2 in that's just offgassing out yields no benefit if the amount in <= the amount out.

I hope that made sense.

Even I understood that.

 

[Ziggy953]

Okay, guys. I am following along but I am not familiar with a lot. Like, CO2, flourite, lighting. For example, what is LED? I have what looks like florescent tubes but I don't know what category they fall under. I know they're not incandescent...
I love a planted tank and used to have one and it thrived without all of this stuff. I am not DIY but am mechanically inclined. Like I want CO2 and saw a recipe but how to hook it up, I don't know.
I will follow along and try to keep my questions brief. I hope you don't mind.

Holy cow that's a lot of posts.

LED = Light emitting diode I'm going to be using LEDs to light this tank

The sump is the 10g tank under the DT (display tank) and the trickle filter I made is the filter so it replaces the need for a canister or HOB.

I am new to the CO2 end of things as well so I don't know the answers to those questions.

 

[Wy Renegade]

I was under the impression that sump filtration was not uncommon for FW. I've seen it before.

Can't be too common, I started a thread about it, got a total of about two responses, then it kind of died out - of course mine was a little more purpose specific. Getting some great ideas by following along with your build however, especially since I won't have to worry about CO2 loss in my trout tank, but filtration will be a big issue.

 

[Ziggy953]

Quick update.

I just got back from Lowes with the ball valve to reduce the flow of my return pump. I have it at about 1/2 power and it seems to be doing just fine. I'm getting enough flow that the filtration will be efficient and low enough that I should avoid serious off gassing from the return alone. I'm still going to have more than most FW tanks but that can't be avoided with a RR tank.

pics:

This is the heat sink the LEDs will be mounted to:

Here is a shot of the 4th drawer and how the water is flowing through the trickle. Eventually the 4th drawer will be there and have the sponge in it.

This is the Mag5 with the new ball valve throttled back. Ignore the sediment in the bottom of the tank. I'm going to drain it and clean it but am not pressed to do that right now.

Nothing too exciting but some changes and most of you know I like to document everything as I do it. Maybe one day someone can learn from my mistakes!!! LOL

 

[libbyb]

Holy cow that's a lot of posts.

LED = Light emitting diode I'm going to be using LEDs to light this tank

The sump is the 10g tank under the DT (display tank) and the trickle filter I made is the filter so it replaces the need for a canister or HOB.

I am new to the CO2 end of things as well so I don't know the answers to those questions.

Sorry about the posts. Thank you for answering so quickly and concisly.

How is LED different from incadescant and florescent? Does it use more electricity? Does it give off a lot of heat?

 

[Wy Renegade]

Is it just me, or are the last two pictures not showing up in that last post?