Calcium and dKH Struggles

[awillemd1]

I am continuing to struggle to keep my calcium and dKH in the red zone as shone in this article by Randy Holmes-Farley (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm). I am trying to use [acronym:cb67832d3f="Kalkwasser"]Kalk[/acronym:cb67832d3f] as my balanced additive and it almost seems like it isn't doing anything. For example I have added calcium and Kent superbuffer dKH to get myself in the red zone. Then I dose [acronym:cb67832d3f="Kalkwasser"]Kalk[/acronym:cb67832d3f] by dripping it with an IV bag and after a week or so my dKH will be around 2.5 meq/L and my calcium will be around 350 or 370 [acronym:cb67832d3f="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:cb67832d3f]. Currently my dKH is about 2.5 meq/L and my calcium is 370. I am adding about 1 teaspoon of Kent superbuffer dKH a day along with the [acronym:cb67832d3f="Kalkwasser"]Kalk[/acronym:cb67832d3f] to try and get back in the correct range of the dKH.

I just recently tested my magnesium level and it was around 1000 [acronym:cb67832d3f="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:cb67832d3f] which I understand to be a little low. I think the desired range is between 1300 and 1500.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong here? Is my slightly low magnesium level causing the problem?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Willem

Originally Posted by awillemd1

I just recently tested my magnesium level and it was around 1000 [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] which I understand to be a little low. I think the desired range is between 1300 and 1500.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong here? Is my slightly low magnesium level causing the problem?

The [acronym:6a9db0d81b="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] could use a boost for sure but if it was the problem, [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] would start climbing independantly and [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] would fall off or be impossible to maintain. Doesn't seem the case here as your [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] seems to be staying near 2.5 mEq/l which there's nothing wrong with. I would still suggest trying to fix the [acronym:6a9db0d81b="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] with some water changes first before dosing MgCl, your going to need a fair amount. Test the saltmix to see where the level stands at. You might need to get some magnesium chloride to augment the salt and bring the [acronym:6a9db0d81b="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] upto 1250ish [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] if it falls short.

If I understand your dosing, you are using 1 tspn of buffer + 1 tspn of [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Kalkwasser"]kalk[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] dripped daily? When are you adding each? Do you have a stand alone [acronym:6a9db0d81b="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:6a9db0d81b] additive? What brand of saltmix?

Cheers
Steve

[awillemd1]

Steve-s

Thank you for your reply.

Doesn't seem the case here as your [acronym:48c13eab8f="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:48c13eab8f] seems to be staying near 2.5 mEq/l which there's nothing wrong with.

I thought 2.5 mEq/l was a little on the low side.?

Test the saltmix to see where the level stands at.

I am in the process of making some up. I will be able to check it in the next 24 hours for sure.

You might need to get some magnesium chloride to augment the salt and bring the [acronym:48c13eab8f="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:48c13eab8f] upto 1250ish [acronym:48c13eab8f="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:48c13eab8f] if it falls short.

Is there a source of MgCl at a hardware store or garden supply place? I would rather get it there then spend the high prices for aquarium grade MgCl.

If I understand your dosing, you are using 1 tspn of buffer + 1 tspn of [acronym:48c13eab8f="Kalkwasser"]kalk[/acronym:48c13eab8f] dripped daily? When are you adding each? Do you have a stand alone [acronym:48c13eab8f="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:48c13eab8f] additive? What brand of saltmix?

Yes, that is about correct. I don't have a real tight schedule, but based on your feedback in previous posts I am trying to add a small amount of buffer, i.e. 1 tsp daily, typically in the morning. I am trying to constantly add the [acronym:48c13eab8f="Kalkwasser"]Kalk[/acronym:48c13eab8f] as make up water, but I can't keep up due to my schedule, not due to a large amount of evaporation. I have the Kent Marine Liquid Calcium, which I assume is just [acronym:48c13eab8f="Calcium chloride"]CaCl2[/acronym:48c13eab8f]. You advised me previously to try to bring one in range and then work on the other. I thought it was dKH first. I use Instant Ocean Salt and add calcium to try to bring the level above 400 [acronym:48c13eab8f="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:48c13eab8f]. If I don't add calcium the level is always 350 [acronym:48c13eab8f="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:48c13eab8f].

By the way I recently added chaeto to my refugium in an effort to replace all of my caulerpa and avoid the problem of it going sexual. I still run my refugium lights 24/7. I would assume that this helps stabilze the pH that is why I mention this.


Willem

[saltwatersmac]

You're in luck Willem! Steve is the man when it comes to chemistry. He helped me out a lot.

Stephen

Originally Posted by awillemd1

I thought 2.5 mEq/l was a little on the low side.?

Absolutely nothing wrong with an [acronym:61234ae958="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:61234ae958] of 2.5, it's just your [acronym:61234ae958="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:61234ae958] that's low. It's a very widely held and misinformed belief that higher numbers are more beneficial. They are in fact the complete opposite in most cases (if not all). Personally I prefer to balance the chemistry from the salinity (35 [acronym:61234ae958="Parts per Thousand"]ppt[/acronym:61234ae958]) on down so I keep my [acronym:61234ae958="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:61234ae958] around 2.6-2.8 mEq/l and the [acronym:61234ae958="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:61234ae958] around 415 [acronym:61234ae958="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:61234ae958].

Is there a source of MgCl at a hardware store or garden supply place? I would rather get it there then spend the high prices for aquarium grade MgCl.

You are better off with water changes once you test the new salt to see where it sits. a 250 [acronym:61234ae958="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:61234ae958] increase in 80ish [acronym:61234ae958="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:61234ae958] of tank volume (just shy of 2 cups dry weight) MgCl will cost a fair bit, the water change is a much easier solution as a rule. For smaller corrections, epsom salt (magnesium sulphate) can be used but should not be relied upon for large correction nor regular dosing. It will greatly increase the sulphates in the water. Seawater being primarily chloride salts.

I doubt there's anything you'll find that will be refined properly (cheap) and still be pure enough for tank use. It will most likely come with alot of extra metal salts which at the very least would contribute to some serious algae issues.

Yes, that is about correct. I don't have a real tight schedule, but based on your feedback in previous posts I am trying to add a small amount of buffer, i.e. 1 tsp daily, typically in the morning. I am trying to constantly add the [acronym:61234ae958="Kalkwasser"]Kalk[/acronym:61234ae958] as make up water, but I can't keep up due to my schedule, not due to a large amount of evaporation. I have the Kent Marine Liquid Calcium, which I assume is just [acronym:61234ae958="Calcium chloride"]CaCl2[/acronym:61234ae958]. You advised me previously to try to bring one in range and then work on the other. I thought it was dKH first. I use Instant Ocean Salt and add calcium to try to bring the level above 400 [acronym:61234ae958="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:61234ae958]. If I don't add calcium the level is always 350 [acronym:61234ae958="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:61234ae958].

Your [acronym:61234ae958="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:61234ae958] is fine but you will have an easier time of it with the [acronym:61234ae958="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:61234ae958] once the [acronym:61234ae958="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:61234ae958] is corrected as well. Before you do any more "corrections", please post your results on the salmix and we can go from there.

I still run my refugium lights 24/7. I would assume that this helps stabilze the pH that is why I mention this.

Another misconception. 24/7 will not be as beneficial in terms of "stability". You are better off if possible, having the fuge lit while the main tank lights are off (reverse lighting). That way you are balancing off [acronym:61234ae958="Oxygen"]O2[/acronym:61234ae958] and [acronym:61234ae958="Carbon dioxide"]CO2[/acronym:61234ae958] production so there is a saw off and no real change. I doubt the way you have it is going to impact the [acronym:61234ae958="Alkinity"]alk[/acronym:61234ae958] much unless the tank is heavily stocked.

[awillemd1]

Steve-s

I checked my fresh batch of IO water with a Salifert [acronym:614c3d4548="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:614c3d4548] test kit and it tested right at 1000 [acronym:614c3d4548="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:614c3d4548] [acronym:614c3d4548="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]mg[/acronym:614c3d4548].

I am not sure what to think at this point, i.e. I don't know if my test kit is off or if my IO salt is off. I don't think I have any way to validate it as I have called every aquarium place in Houston and none of them do a [acronym:614c3d4548="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:614c3d4548] test.

Any advice at this point would be most appreciated.


Willem

Nasty salt, oh well. One last question and then we can move onto a solution.

What salinity do you mix the salt to and are you using a refractometer or hydrometer?

As far as your test kit, I think it's accurate. The reading in the tank and the saltmix itself can't really be coincidence (both 1000 [acronym:f18aedd910="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:f18aedd910]).

Cheers
Steve

[awillemd1]

Steve-s

Thank you for the reply.

Nasty salt, oh well. One last question and then we can move onto a solution.

Can you recommend something else? Unfortunately, I just purchased another 5 gallon pail of this salt.

What salinity do you mix the salt to and are you using a refractometer or hydrometer?

I use an inexpensive hydrometer. I might have access to a refractometer at work as I work for a chemical company.

As far as your test kit, I think it's accurate. The reading in the tank and the saltmix itself can't really be coincidence (both 1000 [acronym:d1ff820834="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:d1ff820834]).

Good point! I thought of making a new batch with the newly purchased salt to see if it was any different. I also thought I might buy a small amount of another manufacturer's salt to see if that gave a different result. Finally, I called Aquarium Systems, the manufacturer of IO salt to see what their target value was for [acronym:d1ff820834="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:d1ff820834], however, they haven't returned my call yet. I couldn't find any specs on their webpage.

Also, I checked out Kent Tech-M magnesium supplement at Marine Depot. It doesn't seem so expensive, however, I don't know if I can find it in my small town and I didn't do any calculations to see how much I would need.

I did a 10 gallon water change this morning which obviously won't help my [acronym:d1ff820834="milligrams or magnesium, depending on context"]Mg[/acronym:d1ff820834] level, but will help to raise my [acronym:d1ff820834="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:d1ff820834] level as well as replace other things. (I add Kent Marine Liquid [acronym:d1ff820834="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:d1ff820834] to my new salt water to bring the level to around 425 [acronym:d1ff820834="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:d1ff820834]. According to my test kit the IO salt always measures at around 350 [acronym:d1ff820834="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:d1ff820834] [acronym:d1ff820834="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:d1ff820834]). Also, I added a tablespoon of my Kent Marine Liquid calcium, to again begin to bring my [acronym:d1ff820834="Calcium"]Ca[/acronym:d1ff820834] level up.

Looking forward to your reply.

Willem

Still need to know the salinity?

As far as the Tech-M, you'd need a little over ½ of the 64 oz bottle to correct the tank levels so not exspensive at all ($12.99).

The salts easy to work around really, switching is up to you but knowing the limitations of a certain salt like this is relatively easy to work around.

Per 5 [acronym:3ca89cc133="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:3ca89cc133] of newly mixed salt you'd need...

2¼ oz MgCl to bring 1000 [acronym:3ca89cc133="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:3ca89cc133] to 1250 [acronym:3ca89cc133="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:3ca89cc133]
¾ tspn of [acronym:3ca89cc133="calcium chloride"]CaCl[/acronym:3ca89cc133] dry weight to go from 350 [acronym:3ca89cc133="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:3ca89cc133] to 415 [acronym:3ca89cc133="Parts per Million"]ppm[/acronym:3ca89cc133]
or
½ oz (approx) of [acronym:3ca89cc133="calcium chloride"]CaCl[/acronym:3ca89cc133] if using a liquid form.

Cheers
Steve

[awillemd1]

Steve-s:

Still need to know the salinity?

Sorry I missed that one.

I target my specific gravity to be around 1.023 +/- .01. I measured it about a week ago and I know it was in that range, but I don't know the exact value.
Also, I know the new salt water that I used to do the water change was in that range.

I will stop at the [acronym:9f6c5b9b28="Local Fish Store"]lfs[/acronym:9f6c5b9b28] on my way home to see if they have the Tech-M.

Willem