Clowns have somthing growing on them...need help!

[zenn]

Ok, my clowns started acting wierd about 2 weeks after i introduced them. I thought it was possibly ich because the bigger clown wouldn't eat for a while and both were acting generally more timid. I looked closer and noticed what appeared to be small growths on them. I wasn't for sure though since the growths weren't as white as i'm use to seeing with ich. It was almost as if they growths were the same color as their body's just more of a lump. I moved them both to [acronym:876fbef40a="quarantine or quart depending on context"]qt[/acronym:876fbef40a] after observing them for another day and began lowering [acronym:876fbef40a="Specific gravity"]SG[/acronym:876fbef40a] so i could administer hypo. Since doing so, the bigger clown has started eating again and the smaller one has continued to eat healthily.

But the growths seems to continue to grow on the smaller clown especially. They almost seem to be attacking his right fin now. So i took pics in hope someone could [acronym:876fbef40a="Identify"]ID[/acronym:876fbef40a] what is wrong so i might be able to remedy the sickenss.


This is the smaller clown with the larger growths on his right side


This is the bigger clown with a small growth on his mouth (looks almost white in this photo probably due to the flash mostly).

Anybody have any ideas?

Originally Posted by zenn

I looked closer and noticed what appeared to be small growths on them. I wasn't for sure though since the growths weren't as white as i'm use to seeing with ich. It was almost as if they growths were the same color as their body's just more of a lump.

Any additional symptoms... excess slime/haziness, color loss, red sores/bloody areas, increased or laboured gilling. In the first pic, I also see some growth/protrusion around the anal fin, yes?

I moved them both to [acronym:377b3203b0="quarantine or quart depending on context"]qt[/acronym:377b3203b0] after observing them for another day and began lowering [acronym:377b3203b0="Specific gravity"]SG[/acronym:377b3203b0] so i could administer hypo. Since doing so, the bigger clown has started eating again and the smaller one has continued to eat healthily.

Hypo conditions work very well for rekindling the appetite.

Cheers
Steve

[zenn]

Originally Posted by steve-s

Any additional symptoms... excess slime/haziness, color loss, red sores/bloody areas, increased or laboured gilling. In the first pic, I also see some growth/protrusion around the anal fin, yes?

Cheers
Steve

maybe excess slime. No red sores or bloddy areas. There is definentially some increased labouring of the gills by the bigger clown only(the one that wouldn't eat for a while). The little one doesn't seem to be breathing faster at all. I haven't been able to see any real signs of them losing color either.

The bigger clown does have what appears to be a string of slime coming out of his underside many times. And i've noticed that it started when the other symptoms started.

The littler clown seems to have the most growths on him. And yes, he does have growths by his anal fin. But most of the bumps are concentrated in one area. The bumps seem to be spreading to his right fin and even further up his side(an of course by his anal fin like you pointed out). But unlike ich, these growths have only appeared on one side of the fish right in the middle of his body. Usually ich is all over and spreads fairly quickly [acronym:d22c346ffb="In My Experience"]IME[/acronym:d22c346ffb]. I guess it could still be ich but it just seems a little different.

Here's another pic:

[zenn]

about.com has a 'saltwater disease troubleshooter' thing that led me to this recommended course or action:

Diagnosis from about.com= fungas infection

Recommended treatment = Most fungal infections are fairly easy to treat. You can just add a saltwater fish fungicide (which you can find at your [acronym:470e5156b8="Local Fish Store"]LFS[/acronym:470e5156b8]) to the tank water and hope for the best, but a more thorough procedure will greatly improve the odds of a cure as well as prevent another outbreak.

Remove the fish to a [acronym:470e5156b8="quarantine or quart depending on context"]QT[/acronym:470e5156b8]. Perform a thorough tank cleaning, including vacuuming the substrate and water change. Add a dose of fungicide from your [acronym:470e5156b8="Local Fish Store"]LFS[/acronym:470e5156b8]. Remove the infected fish from the [acronym:470e5156b8="quarantine or quart depending on context"]QT[/acronym:470e5156b8] and place it on a soft towel soaked in saltwater. Cover the fish's eyes with a corner of the towel to reduce struggling. With a dry paper towel, carefully scrape the fungus from the fish. Wet a cotton swab with tincture of iodine and daub the infected area until covered. Let the solution sink in for a few seconds then return the fish to the tank.

A good tank maintenance program should keep the problem from reoccurring.

Does this seem likely or is it something else? [acronym:470e5156b8="Thanks in Advance"]TIA[/acronym:470e5156b8][/i]

[zenn]

The more posts i make and the more research i do, the better i'm figuring this sickness out. To me, this sickness is sounding more like Lympho. After reading up on lympho, i think we have a winner. Here's why i think this:

1. I recently redid the aquascape. It was probably pretty stressful on the clowns as i left them in there while i did it. Probalby should have moved them to [acronym:cc688d93a2="quarantine or quart depending on context"]qt[/acronym:cc688d93a2].

2. Since lympho is a viral infection often caused by stress, i would argue that the fish were stressed from the reaquascapeing of the tank and maybe even injured themselves on rocks when trying to escape my construction project in there.

3. The growths are bigger and more concentrated than ich. They aren't as white either. The spots aren't falling off like ich will from time to time.

4. The fish are both acting healthy at this point. Another sign of lympho and not ich.

Just some things to think about. I'll still be waiting to hear what Steve-s thinks this is and what i should do.

The bigger clown does have what appears to be a string of slime coming out of his underside many times. And i've noticed that it started when the other symptoms started.

This is the part that's concerning me. You have to watch that carefully as it is definately the sign of a parasite. If these are [acronym:12b0c622e7="Wild Caught"]WC[/acronym:12b0c622e7] clowns, there's a high probability of Brooklynosis. Easily treated when caught early enough and in fact if [acronym:12b0c622e7="Wild Caught"]WC[/acronym:12b0c622e7], not uncommon to treat it prophylactically with a series of [acronym:12b0c622e7="Saltwater"]SW[/acronym:12b0c622e7] <<formalin baths>>. Read <<here>> and see what if anything rings true.

Lympho is indeed viral but stress is only one contributor. The environment and foods fed are just as important, if not moreso. You can read <<here>>. It also does not usually affect several areas of the same fish but rather one or two so I would lean towards true fungal if anything at this point which is very rare in [acronym:12b0c622e7="Saltwater"]SW[/acronym:12b0c622e7]. In either case, you are in no rush, neither will kill the fish quickly.

Cheers
Steve

[zenn]

i think it may be possible that the two clowns have different illnesses. I was thinking they had the same thing cause obviously they're right next to eachother all the time. But they don't really share any of the same symptoms. So maybe the little clown has lympho and the bigger one has a fungal problem(which would explain his labored breathing but lack of lumps).

I would see how the clowns respond to the continued hyposalinity, heavily vitamin fortified foods and good clean water. Wouldn't hurt to use garlic as well. Be very sure through the hypo process that pH and salinity are checked 2-3x each day.

If the problems progresses or new symptoms appear, please post back. The excess body slime is something to keep an eye on especially. If it doesn't return, I would still treat for possible Brooklynella just prior to placing back in the main tank once the hypo treatment is done. It is not unheard of for clowns to develope Brook later on. It's a fairly simple treatment that requires about a week.

Cheers
Steve

[zenn]

do i need to use garlic if they are already eating well?

Also, how do i get my [acronym:16d5d10950="power head or Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions, depending on context"]ph[/acronym:16d5d10950] to go up in a hypo [acronym:16d5d10950="quarantine or quart depending on context"]qt[/acronym:16d5d10950] tank?

Originally Posted by zenn

do i need to use garlic if they are already eating well?

It can have some possitive effect against mild bacterial problems internally as well as being an overall good antioxidant. It's not a "must do" but I would if you could.

Also, how do i get my [acronym:030eee6ebe="power head or Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions, depending on context"]ph[/acronym:030eee6ebe] to go up in a hypo [acronym:030eee6ebe="quarantine or quart depending on context"]qt[/acronym:030eee6ebe] tank?

A good powdered reef buffer will help, ones containing borate especially.

Cheers
Steve