New here -- source for bichirs and eels in Winnipeg?

[LydiaGreen]

Hello. I am SO happy to have found a forum with Canadian content!

We (my family) started out the usual way -- lots of mistakes -- 10 gallon tank and lots of goldfish for my son after BAD advice from someone who didn't have a clue. A few tank upgrades for the surviving and growing goldfish and we are now addicted to fish -- okay, I am now addicted to fish the family has no choice in the matter

I have a 55 on order -- all of the golds and the dojos will be going in there -- and a quote for a 375. Those two tanks and the 44 will be going into the "fish room". I have a LOT of work ahead of me though -- this is what I want to do with these tanks:

http://www.catfishheaven.net/day1.html

So, as you can see from what I want to do, things will be a while but, I was hoping for some advice from those in my area. I'm in Northwestern Ontario about 4 and a half hours from Winnipeg. I need a store with good, healthy prospects for fish to stock the 44 and the 375. I want three elephant-noses for the 44 and 3 bichirs (2 senegal and 1 albino senegal) and 2 peacock eels for the 375. I'll be looking for the elephant noses in approximately 4-6 months and the bichirs and eels in approximately 8-12 months. Hopefully you will have some advice on a reliable source for these beautiful creatures.

I have visited Fintastics in Winnipeg and was actually impressed with what I saw (including a beautiful teacup freshwater stingray, but if I spent $150 on it my husband would FREAK). But, I don't remember seeing any elephant noses or bichirs or eels. Does anyone know if these species can be found in Winnipeg? Thanks in advance for any advice or info. I appreciate it.

 

[Serge]

Welcome aboard, fellow canuck!




I know nothing about fresh water fishes tho, but good luck in your projects!!

8)

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA!!!! I am from Sask and am FW.

 

[LydiaGreen]

Thanks for the welcome Zagz and Serge. I've learned a thing or two since joining... most importantly that there is a name for my addiction - MTS

 

[Toirtis]

Spencer Jack is in Winterpeg and has ornate bichirs for about $25 each, but I suspect that they are bigger than you wish to go (up to 27"). If you would not mind shipping, then it would be easy enough to ship you all those fish from Calgary [baby senegals would run about $7-$10 each, albinos about $15-$20 each, peacock eels about $5-$8 each, elephant-nose momyrids about $10-$15 each...plus about $60-$75 shipping to Winnipeg airport....and our teacup rays (although not always safe with bichirs) are only $40-$50 each out here....and no PST].

The one concern I would have (having plenty of experience with Polypterids) would be that the peacock eels would, until quite fully-grown (12"), be at some risk from the bichirs (12"-14").

You could go with a multi-bichir tank...say 3 albino senegals, 2 normals, 2-3 P. palmas polli, 1 P. delhezi and some catfish (some larger Synodontids) and 4-5 Ctenopoma acutirostre....that would make for a pretty and interesting 375.

By the by, welcome to the board!

 

[LydiaGreen]

Thank you Toirtis - alll of the info I had so far said that the bichirs would be okay with eels (or any other fish) as long as they were similar size. I guess I could hold off on transferring my goldfish to the 44 for awhile and keep the peacock eels in the 55 until they get large enough. Or, I might just go with the multi-bichir tank. My son wants to be a paleontologist and we have a penchant for anything that looks prehistoric. Did you know that bichirs as a species have remained relatively unchanged since the mezazoic era? They must be incredibly hardy and adaptable species to have survived this long without changing. Hardy, I like. Thanks for the source in Winnipeg. I went to the website and signed myself up for his mailing list. It will be awhile before I buy them, but I'd like to kind of get a feel for the source first and know that I will be getting quality specimens that will stand a chance surviving the 4.5 hour drive home (I have battery powered 02). Should I use the pleco and goldfish to help cycle the 375 when I get it up and running? My goldfish and pleco are all healthy, no problems but I thought I'd better ask - you know that whole cross-species illness thing?

 

[LydiaGreen]

Toirtis - a few websites say these fellas - 4-5 Ctenopoma acutirostre - only grow to 6-8". Would they be safe with bichirs and large cats?
Also, the Lima Shovelnose Catfish averages 12" in aquariums and you can keep 3 of them together as they are quite peaceful and social (says the info). Could I get 3 of these and none of the ctenopama acuitirostres? The catfish would keep things neat and tidy in there.

 

[Toirtis]

Did you know that bichirs as a species have remained relatively unchanged since the mezazoic era?

I did....in fact, I have written a book on them (which is taking forever to see print, damnit). The fossil record on them (and relatives) is terribly poor, though...a shame, as I would love to own a few bichir fossils for display.

They must be incredibly hardy and adaptable species to have survived this long without changing. Hardy, I like.

Hardy they are....like the 24" female ornate that escaped one of my display tanks at a fish show a couple of years back....she was discovered scurrying about the hjall floor at 2am, popped back into her tank, and 5 hours later won 'best of show'.....or my friend's ornate that got its head stuck in a brick ornament (and since it could not surface to gulp air, was at risk of drowning)...my friend tried and tried to free it, but to no avail, so he took what he felt was his only remaining option and wrapped the fish and brick in a damp towel, took it out to the garage, hit the brick with a hammer to shatter it, dusted off the fish and put it back in his tank where it lived happily ever after.

Thanks for the source in Winnipeg. I went to the website and signed myself up for his mailing list.

Spencer gets some nice stuff (including rays), and his ornates are currently going for (at 4"-6") $22, plus he has a 25% off sale until the 15th, so $16.50 each.

I will be getting quality specimens that will stand a chance surviving the 4.5 hour drive home (I have battery powered 02).

No need to worry....bochors are nearly bomb-proof, and require no oxygenation....two summers ago I drove around doing errands with two 12" ornates in 4" of water in a plastic 'critter-carrier' in the back of my minivan for 4-5 hours, and they were quite happy and well when I released them into my tank at the end of the day.

Should I use the pleco and goldfish to help cycle the 375 when I get it up and running? My goldfish and pleco are all healthy, no problems but I thought I'd better ask - you know that whole cross-species illness thing?

Sure, although you would do better to fishless-cycle then toss in the pleco and some other cats to keep it cycled until the bichirs arrive....the goldfish will not really do well in the 77ºF-80ºF you will want the tank at.

 

[Toirtis]

Toirtis - a few websites say these fellas - 4-5 Ctenopoma acutirostre - only grow to 6-8". Would they be safe with bichirs and large cats?

Safe with Senegal bichirs, any of the Polypterus palmas complex, P. delhezi, P. retropinnis ssp., P. weeksi....I would not trust them to not be eaten by large, mature P. ornatipinnis or P. endlicheri ssp., though. As far as 'large' cats go, it would depend on the species....large synodontods would be safe, as would largish 'raphael/talking' cats'

Also, the Lima Shovelnose Catfish averages 12" in aquariums and you can keep 3 of them together as they are quite peaceful and social (says the info). Could I get 3 of these and none of the ctenopama acuitirostres? The catfish would keep things neat and tidy in there.

Potentially, so long as the bichirs you chose were the same size or slightly larger (like palmas species, delhezi), although the limas may not appreciate the bichirs swimming habits (limas tend to prefer fairly slow, quite tanks), particulatly at night, when the bichirs are more active. Limas are predatory midwater fish, though, and not the best choices as a 'clean-up crew'.

 

[LydiaGreen]

Thank you so much for all of your help Toirtis -- I REALLY appreciate it. I just found out I might be up and running long before I thought I would be. My mother wants to give me the money to pay for all of this (we're completing an unfinished basement to do this remember = expensive). But, thank you again for all of your help and advice. Considering how very little information there is about bichirs out there, you'd think a publisher would WANT to fill that void. Send me a PM -WHEN- it gets published - I'll buy it!

 

[Toirtis]

But, thank you again for all of your help and advice.

Don't mention it....when it comes to keeping Polypterids, its hard to shut me up.

Considering how very little information there is about bichirs out there, you'd think a publisher would WANT to fill that void. Send me a PM -WHEN- it gets published - I'll buy it!

More to it than many people realise, plus we are talking a hardcover book that will be published (likely in one run) in English, German, and Japanese, and with a smallish market, so no so quick and easy as a softcover on something as popular as guppies/bettas/etc destined for only the North American market. Plus, I am a bit of a perfectionist, so I want it to be as up to date and correct as possible.

 

[Toirtis]

And remember, if you find that you ne3ed to, contact me and I can put together and ship you just about everything out of Calgary, and if the order is big enough (say $150-$200 in fish), even with the shipping factored in, it will work out pretty cheaply on a per-fish basis.

 

[LydiaGreen]

Aw.. thanks Toirtis. If Spencer Jack can't help me out... I will absolutely PM for your help.

My son (he's 10) thinks it's "really cool" that I'm getting advice from a zoologist on the bichirs -- start of a fan club maybe? He likes anything scientific... most 10 year olds want to visit the water park or the movies during a trip to the city, not my boy -- he wants to go to the Museum of Man & Nature, the planetarium, the Fort Whyte Wildlife Centre (largest aquarium in Manitoba), the Winnipeg zoo, and we're going to see about sneaking the kids into the casino this time if they'll let us (large tunnel aquarium that you walk through and the fish swim around you and over your head - very, very nice specimens in that tank). Our big trip last summer was three weeks in Alberta -- two days of it was spent in "Dinosaur Valley" at the Royal Tyrell Musuem - my son was in heaven! Very disappointed when he found out he couldn't keep any fossils that we found. He actually managed to find a couple fossilized things along an eroded riverbank that he left with our relatives there (you have to be an Alberta resident to keep what you find).

 

[Toirtis]

My son (he's 10) thinks it's "really cool" that I'm getting advice from a zoologist on the bichirs -- start of a fan club maybe?

Sure, fluff my ego. Hey, next time you are coming to town, let me know...lots of cool stuff between here and Edmonton.

He likes anything scientific... most 10 year olds want to visit the water park or the movies during a trip to the city, not my boy -- he wants to go to the Museum of Man & Nature, the planetarium, the Fort Whyte Wildlife Centre (largest aquarium in Manitoba), the Winnipeg zoo,

Good lad...sounds like me when I was his age (and, coincidentally, I lived in Winnipeg for 15 months when I was 9-10).

and we're going to see about sneaking the kids into the casino this time if they'll let us (large tunnel aquarium that you walk through and the fish swim around you and over your head - very, very nice specimens in that tank).

Ah yes, I saw that a while back....very nice tank.

Our big trip last summer was three weeks in Alberta -- two days of it was spent in "Dinosaur Valley" at the Royal Tyrell Musuem - my son was in heaven!

Did you also manage to drop by Reptile World reptile zoo in Drum while you were there? Phil Currie (head paleo at Tyrell) is a good friend....thanks to him I have seen some pretty cool things.

Very disappointed when he found out he couldn't keep any fossils that we found. He actually managed to find a couple fossilized things along an eroded riverbank that he left with our relatives there (you have to be an Alberta resident to keep what you find).

Too bad, but there are some excellent fossil beds in Manitoba, many not far from Winnipeg, either...in fact, when I lived there, a good friend's grandmother had a lot of fresh 'gravel' put in her driveway, and whilst my friend and I were playing archaeologist/paleontologist amongst it, we discovered that it was chock-a-block full of actual small brachiopod fossils....I believe that it had come from a supplier that mined it out of a nearby gravel pit.

 

[LydiaGreen]

Did you also manage to drop by Reptile World reptile zoo in Drum while you were there? Phil Currie (head paleo at Tyrell) is a good friend....thanks to him I have seen some pretty cool things.

No, we couldn't go to Reptile World. I wanted to, my son wanted to, my daughter didn't care. My husband and my mother and ALL of her relatives on the other hand are terrified of snakes. My mother and her family have good reason so it is therefore not a phobia but, my husband has never had any reason to fear snakes (we do not have any poisonous ones in Northwestern Ontario and he grew up here). My mother lived in Mexico on a Mennonite colony until she was about 10 years old. Dogs weren't "pets", they were protectors against snakes... not the snakes' fault... they would come into the mud houses (no real doors or windows) and curl up in the blankets in the kids' beds to get warm, Grandma would send the dog in to look for snakes before the kids could go back to bed. I actually kept a few little garters as a kid (in the garage, my mother would not allow them in the house), but they got out of their cage one summer and ate my brother's frogs... I wasn't allowed to keep snakes after that. Probably a good thing, I only ever kept them a couple of months at a time and would release them back into the snake pit for the winter (HUGE snake pit in behind our hospital). The only good thing about my intervention was that the ones I released were very well fed

I can be somewhat evil at times. One summer afternoon, my husband was mowing the lawn and came running back to the house. There was a snake sticking part way out of the garden and he thought he might have clipped it with the lawn mower. My husband would take on a bear for me, but snakes are my department. So, I went out to the garden and there was a "snake" laying half on the lawn, half in the garden. I picked it up and pretended it was lunging for my throat! My husband was having a FIT! Then, I started laughing. It was one of my son's rubber snakes. It was very realistic looking, but my husband didn't think it was funny at all I still do. Pulling that stunt probably didn't help our chances of going to reptile world very much. So, no, we didn't go. My husband doesn't mind my fish addiction but, anytime I mention getting a little bitty snake, he tells me he would have to move out! So, no snakes in this household.

Could I ask a favour? If it's not too much to ask? The next time you are talking to Phil Currie could you ask him where on earth a person could find paleontology kits for kids? I wouldn't ask, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a birthday or Christmas present for a kid who only ever wants items related to paleontology! I even went to the Tyrrell website and couldn't find anything to mail order from them. Once upon a time, there were little paleo kits you could buy that you had to chip away at to find the "fossils" inside but, those are few and far between to find now, even at educational toy stores. They need to release another Jurassic Park movie and make dinosaurs popular again so I can find this stuff. Two summers ago, the Museum of Man & Nature had a paleontology session where the kids could get in there, hands on with someone who actually knew what they were talking about. My son was in his element and didn't want to leave. Maybe that would be an idea for the Tyrrell online store, to have these kits, I know I would purchase them and my family members would be interested as well... this kid is REALLY hard to shop for.

Don't go out of your way anything like that. I don't want to be a pest. But, if you happen to be talking to him, could you mention that there are kids out there like mine who really have a passion for paleontology? I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks again for all of your help Toirtis. Being my first really big tank, I want to get everything right the first time so I won't have any losses.

 

[Toirtis]

Could I ask a favour? If it's not too much to ask? The next time you are talking to Phil Currie could you ask him where on earth a person could find paleontology kits for kids? I wouldn't ask, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy a birthday or Christmas present for a kid who only ever wants items related to paleontology! I even went to the Tyrrell website and couldn't find anything to mail order from them. Once upon a time, there were little paleo kits you could buy that you had to chip away at to find the "fossils" inside but, those are few and far between to find now, even at educational toy stores. ... this kid is REALLY hard to shop for.

I will. In the meantime, I found this shop a while back:

http://storeforknowledge.com/Dinosaur-Excavation-Dig-Kits-C188.aspx

Another idea would be to buy your son one of the multi-pocketed fishing vests (in tan, of course) like the paleontologists/archaeologists wear, and fill the pockets with tools such as are used on digs (magnifying glass, brushes, mini-trowels, small awls, dental picks, etc).

 

[LydiaGreen]

Thanks Toirtis, that is a great site and has a wishlist function so I'll let him browse and pick out things that he'll like - then everyone can pick what they want to get him for Christmas from it. We've already decided on a telescope for his big gift this year - I think he'll really enjoy it. The vest is a GREAT idea -- thanks. We'll give him the vest and then I can fill his stocking with the tools. He'll love it. We found an old gravel pit an hour or so south of us where people have been finding fossils so, we'll have to take him there in the spring after the run-off and let him explore. It would be easier if he was into video games and cars and trucks and bikes like most 10 year olds but, figuratively the brain is a muscle and needs to be exercised. If he's interested in the sciences, we should allow him to pursue it. Thanks again, Toirtis.

Someone on another board felt that 2 XP3's on the 375 wouldn't be enough. So, now I'm looking at 2 XP3's and an Eheim 2229 wet/dry filter as well. What do you think for the number of fish I am planning on getting?

 

[Toirtis]

Someone on another board felt that 2 XP3's on the 375 wouldn't be enough. So, now I'm looking at 2 XP3's and an Eheim 2229 wet/dry filter as well. What do you think for the number of fish I am planning on getting?

Well, I am always a fan of overfiltration (I have 200 gph on one of my 8 gallon aquariums). ....I was initially thinking two XP3s and an AC500 on your 375, but was unsure of what your total bioload was going to look like. The dual XP3s and the Eheim (a fave filter brand of mine) would be great, especially if it becomes a multi-bichir tank.

 

[LydiaGreen]

Okay, great thanks. Now that doubles the costs for filtration (over $400 for 2229) but, I want to do it right before I get the fish. Not to mention that the intakes and outflows for all of the filtration will have to be planned into the design of the styrofoam/cement backdrop. Can't take everything apart later and redo it with nowhere else for big fish to go, right?

Thanks again Toirtis. My computer will be down now for a couple of days -- I have to pack everything away for the cement work that my husband is doing (cement dust is MURDER on a computer) and I'm starting a string of night-shifts anyway so, I won't have much time to be on here (much as I WANT to continue doing bichir research). Talk to you again soon.

 

[Toirtis]

Well, in the meantime, if you have a decent lobrary nearby, see if they have a copy of "Jurassic Fishes" by Haruto Kodera....it has an excellent section on bichirs.