350 or 500 gallon SW FOWLR Tank

[SNOboardNinja]

Hello Everyone,

I'm planning on setting up a saltwater tank again FOWLR (not a lot of live rock tho, $$$). (Years ago 17, I was in the hobby big time. I even had for 5yrs a aquarium service business)

My plan is to have;
1) a canister/barrel filled with 20L of matrix.
2) a few canisters each with the appropriate (1L per 100g) amount of De-Nitrate in them dialed below 50gph.
3) possibly a few FBSF (reason a few, is due to cabinet height, throwing sand, & 2lbs per 100g)
4) a few sumps, one @ 8' long approx for just growing Chaeto on reverse lighting,
5) two skimmers on a rotated cleaning sched, (I happen to have 2 old (17yrs) red sea skimmers), & I plan on making 2 LG, pin wheel, recirculating, cone skimmers .
6) Purigen on recharging rotation -100ml per 100g,
7) filter socks rotating every 2-3 days,
8) & a fish load of approximately 1" per 4-5gal. (2 Triggers Huma & Niger, 3 tangs Clown, Blonde Naso & a yellow, 1 Emperor Angel, 1 Flame angel, & 1 bubble tip w/2 Ocellaris) & if i can also a Powder blue tang & Queen Angel.
8) possibly eventually some corals that wouldn't get eaten. I happen to love Electric Green star polyps, pulsating Xenia & Birds nest corals.

The tank size will be either 350g or 500g, 8'L x 23" H x 36"or 54" D, a friend owns a Lg glass business, "mistake" tempered glass on the cheap.

The biggest issue is, I need to keep costs down, way down, I'm a "starving artist " & I don't see that changing. Saltwater changes can be expensive. If I was to only do a water change of 25g ea week, is having a smaller tank better or larger? Can i get away with only a 25g WC weekly? Thoughts are, a smaller tank, great filtration, & higher % of water changed out. Where as a larger tank, still great filtration & it has a lower concentration per gal.

What's your opinion of the plan & the best tank size? Anything you would change?

Tanks,
Aharon

 

[mr_X]

Fitst of all, this is not a FOWLR. FOWLR would indicate fish and live rock only, not corals and anemones. This is a reef tank. Water changes aren't where the bulk of your cost is going to come in. Initial setup is going to be a couple thousand (at least) by the time you get done. Then you have test kits (which you'll need due to the "reef" tank), media replacement (personally, I don't think you need purigen or anything like that. You can run a healthy tank without it.
It would all be up to your stock list, which currently, in a short time, will be large enough to pollute your water pretty quickly.
Running your skimmers on a rotating schedule doesn't make any sense to me. If you plan on using two skimmers, run them both 24/7/365.
Your current list is not going to give you very much pleasure. The clown tang will terrorize everything else, and right behind him will be the powder blue.
IMO, I would make the largest tank possible and use a LOT of live rock, for two reasons
1- you'll need the filtration that live rock brings
2- your tormented fish will need places to hide as they are relentlessly bullied.
You can use dry rock and let it become live over time. Also check craigslist for people getting out of the hobby. There you can usually find rock cheap.

Most of those fish are potential coral eaters btw.

 

[SNOboardNinja]

2 Skimmers, when one is cleaned the other is fully functional.
Set up, i have just about everything needed.
I knew it about the Powder blue, not about the clown.
I LOVE triggers, TONS of personality.
I figured the Purigen would help with nitrates & phosphates, "algae"
I don't need a full tank, i like my favorites, & they will on the most part all be big

 

[SNOboardNinja]

What I'm mainly after, is a big wide tank, with some big beautiful fish, with personality, that will be easy to maintain.

 

[SNOboardNinja]

Fitst of all, this is not a FOWLR. FOWLR would indicate fish and live rock only, not corals and anemones. This is a reef tank. Water changes aren't where the bulk of your cost is going to come in. Initial setup is going to be a couple thousand (at least) by the time you get done. Then you have test kits (which you'll need due to the "reef" tank), media replacement (personally, I don't think you need purigen or anything like that. You can run a healthy tank without it.
It would all be up to your stock list, which currently, in a short time, will be large enough to pollute your water pretty quickly.
Running your skimmers on a rotating schedule doesn't make any sense to me. If you plan on using two skimmers, run them both 24/7/365.
Your current list is not going to give you very much pleasure. The clown tang will terrorize everything else, and right behind him will be the powder blue.
IMO, I would make the largest tank possible and use a LOT of live rock, for two reasons
1- you'll need the filtration that live rock brings
2- your tormented fish will need places to hide as they are relentlessly bullied.
You can use dry rock and let it become live over time. Also check craigslist for people getting out of the hobby. There you can usually find rock cheap.

Most of those fish are potential coral eaters btw.

I was under the impression if I placed the Powder blue last and a bit smaller I wouldn't have an issue with him especially being in such a large tank.
Clown tangs are really such bothersome fish like powder blues?

 

[Sniperhank]

Clown tangs are monsters. It is too bad since they are so beautiful. I know of many members that have huge tanks with tangs but have to keep the clown tangs they own in a tank all their own.

Edit:When it comes to Purigen, I'm a fan of the product. I run it in my tank. When it comes to what you think it does though, that isn't the use. Think of Purigen as 'fancy carbon'. It will pull out ammonia and nitrite as well as polish the water. I'm aware of their claim of nitrate removal, but I have never noticed this personally. When it comes to lowering phosphates, this is not covered by Purigen and will be found in products like GFO and Phosguard.

 

[SNOboardNinja]

Oh, & neither of those can be recharged

 

[Sniperhank]

And even with Purigen being able to be recharged, this isn't really a forever process that can be sustained from two bags until you die. At some point they stop such functionality, I think it is mentioned on the bottle but have not experienced it personally as I have yet to attempt recharging.

 

[mr_X]

Yeah...they are sharp, but they are mean. The powder blue may work, but it will always want to be the alpha fish. There's a 150 I maintain that has had a powder blue since the beginning (7 years I think), along with the other inhabitants which were all added at once, and even now, you can still see some bullying, though he hasn't killed any fish, but doesn't like to let them eat. They basically have to flare up and come in swinging for food. I didn't have the opportunity to add it last since I ordered a box of fish from a wholesale supplier and it wouldn't have been lucrative to order these fish one at a time, but 7 years later......still aggression.
If you want personality, why not a puffer? Many consider them comparable to dogs. Better yet, check out some u-tube videos of cuttlefish. They are absolutely amazing creatures.

Oh....and on the skimmer note- cleaning a skimmer only requires you to remove the collection cup and give it a good rinse in the sink. No reason to shut it down. I have never taken a skimmer apart and cleaned the pump, unless It stopped producing due to sucking up a snail shell or some macroalgae. Generally, I don't keep snails in the skimmer area anyway

 

[SNOboardNinja]

I thought a lot about a dog faced puffer, but I'm not really interested in having to drug him every once in a while to grind down his teeth & in him nipping @ my naso or others fins.

 

[mr_X]

If you feed him snails here and there, you may not have to do anything to his teeth. I haven't seen too much fin nipping out of them either....Maybe it's a rare occurrence.

 

[SNOboardNinja]

Hmm, I'll have to ask around then. Tanks![emoji2]

 

[Sniperhank]

I seem to remember a member using clam on the half shell as a weekly or monthly treat to help with that issue...I'm just having a terrible time remembering some of this stuff today.

 

[SNOboardNinja]

Makes sense

 

[PB_Smith]

And even with Purigen being able to be recharged, this isn't really a forever process that can be sustained from two bags until you die. At some point they stop such functionality, I think it is mentioned on the bottle but have not experienced it personally as I have yet to attempt recharging.

I believe they state it can be recharged up to six times.
On Seachems site they also recommend that it be used in conjunction with a quality carbon as they do pull different things from the water and compliment one another. They do not specifically promote it as a carbon replacement even though some retailers do present it that way.

What I have been using with good success is Purigen and Chemi-pure combo.
The ion exchange resins in chemi-pure help with phosphate and metals.

 

[Sniperhank]

I believe they state it can be recharged up to six times.
On Seachems site they also recommend that it be used in conjunction with a quality carbon as they do pull different things from the water and compliment one another. They do not specifically promote it as a carbon replacement even though some retailers do present it that way.

What I have been using with good success is Purigen and Chemi-pure combo.
The ion exchange resins in chemi-pure help with phosphate and metals.

I do like the Purigen/Chemi-pure combo as well...then used the chemi-pure elite that has GFO in it with good results. Just don't like how chemipure fits in my reactor. Restricts flow from the size of the bag.
Either way, I believe the want to use Purigen was for a money saving choice due to limited budget.

EDIT: That said, one doesn't even know if you need to run any type of media in a system before it is set up. It might not need any of these things.

 

[Toffee]

On the dog face puffer, you could prolong the growing of the teeth by feeding it hard shells food. However you may still end up having to do some work on it but maybe once a yr.


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