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Old 08-08-2008, 05:36 PM   #11
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I agree with the rest and if it were me just wait until you set up the 135g. As for your stocking list, I see a very lonesome liofish once it consumes its smaller tankmates Oh, and aragonite does not buffer anything us aquarists would consider useful and used primarily for the composition, not that I wouldn't switch to it anyways.
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:05 PM   #12
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I didn't say that aragonite buffers anything. It does however maintain your buffered pH levels where crush coral does not. So go with the aragonite sand. Trust me. I'm speaking from 1st hand knowlegde and experience.
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Old 08-08-2008, 09:13 PM   #13
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but CC does not buffer your system as well as live sand
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I didn't say that aragonite buffers anything. It does however maintain your buffered pH levels where crush coral does not. So go with the aragonite sand. Trust me. I'm speaking from 1st hand knowlegde and experience.
No, it does not...not to any usable state of relevance in acceptable water parameters for an aquarist. In order for aragonite to begin dissolving the pH would have to drastically dip in the low 7's, say 7.5 and under. Other circumstances, deep within a sand bed, may induce the dissolving; however, of conditions where the sand bed is not in unison with the bulk of your aquarium water. Not to say that dissolution is not possible, but as I said there is nil noticeable effects in regards to your system as a whole. In fact, adding calcium carbonate will initially lower pH (just a lil) All in all, by the time you have a need for your aragonite to impact the buffered state of your system, you have far more inportant things you should be worrying about

My apologies for getting off topic, but if you'd like to continue this conversation I'd be more than happy
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Old 08-08-2008, 09:38 PM   #14
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Thanks for your attempt at somewhat of a scientific explaination. All you have managed to do it confuse the issue. I am not interested in having a "debate" with you to be honest. You gave your opinion and I gave mine. So, the original poster asked a question and I responded just as you did. The poster can now take what you have said and what I have said and make a somewhat educated decision as to what he or she will try.

I will end with only this for the original poster. If you use crushed coral without aragonite, I promise you that within 3 to 5 months your pH will drop and your system will crash. So monitor it very carefully. If you use the crush coral with aragonite or aragonite sand, your pH levels will be maintained. I have gone through it and I am speaking from 1st hand knowledge.
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Old 08-08-2008, 09:42 PM   #15
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Ps....to the original poster: Don't just listen to the advice on this site. Do some real research and see why marine aquarist (whether reef or FOWLR or FO) prefer some form of aragonite as a substraint and you will read about the buffering benefits in just about every answer you come across.
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Old 08-09-2008, 12:21 AM   #16
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The star isnt reef safe as with the puffer and the lion fish are not reef safe. These are FO type stock.
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:20 AM   #17
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I will end with only this for the original poster. If you use crushed coral without aragonite, I promise you that within 3 to 5 months your pH will drop and your system will crash. So monitor it very carefully. If you use the crush coral with aragonite or aragonite sand, your pH levels will be maintained. I have gone through it and I am speaking from 1st hand knowledge.
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Ps....to the original poster: Don't just listen to the advice on this site. Do some real research and see why marine aquarist (whether reef or FOWLR or FO) prefer some form of aragonite as a substraint and you will read about the buffering benefits in just about every answer you come across.
Interesting. To quote Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley's article on Chemisty & The Aquarium..."aragonite first becomes soluble in seawater when the pH drops below about 7.7 (this value might be more like 7.5-7.7 in reef tanks where the alkalinity is often higher than in seawater). That level is attained in some sand beds, and permits the dissolution of some of the sand.
The rate of dissolution is fairly low, however, because the rate of delivery and degradation of organics (or certain nitrogen compounds) deep enough in the sand to permit a pH drop is fairly low."

As Innovator mentioned, if you are seeing a buffering affect from aragonite or crushed coral (both CaCO3), you have major pH and/or other chemistry issues.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:56 AM   #18
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PH is a tricky level to understand. Things like water flow and time its measured with age of your tank all play a part. As log as it stays within levels and your tank is new then dont try and fix just monitor.

In a FO or FOWLR going bare bottom is no better then CC or sand. A bare bottom could be easier to care for but if not cared for will create problems.

Then haveing some type of substrate means much more beneficial bacteria which means better water conditions if substrate not kept clean.

Things like feeding habits and amount of flow and LR placement can be the differance between enjoying your tank or many headaches.
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Old 08-10-2008, 01:05 AM   #19
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... If you use crushed coral without aragonite, I promise you that within 3 to 5 months your pH will drop and your system will crash.
I think that promise would surprise many folks that have run tanks solely with CC for years with no crash.

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I have gone through it and I am speaking from 1st hand knowledge.
I don't doubt one minute your experience, but there are so many variables in this hobby, it's not really fair to state as fact that CC will cause a tank to crash.
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:37 AM   #20
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I wasn't trying to be fair...I was trying to speak from my experience just as you seem to be doing. So, please allow the poster to take your knowledge, and everyone elses input and make his/her own decision. Like I stated before to the original poster. I would sincerely urge you to use the internet, contact some aquarium specialist as well as use your local library. I would not solely rely on 1 source of information. Good luck with your tank.
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