And it's FINALLY taking off! My 1st FOWLR!!! ;)

[lgdav]

Hello to all!

I figured I'll make a thread of the actual cycling/ stocking. It's my first aquarium so all advice is definitely welcomed!!! (YES- my 1st aquarium. I've never had a freshwater tank so I know I'm going through a HUGE learning curve here by jumping straight into the saltwater world!)

Today I bought 20 lbs of live sand, 10 lbs of live rock, and the store brought over 30 gal of cycled water. The owner came over and set it all up for me; that was so nice of him considering that he was in his son's baseball game when he got the call!!! I know I'll have a long, lasting relationship with them. They've all been sooooo nice and helpful.

What's next? Some damsels to help with the cycling, a few more rocks to enhance the decor, a sump (per the advice of the shop, especially since I plan on expanding to corals when the time is right), and, as soon as it is safe--- my first black and white clown fish!!! Oh! And a cleanup crew.... Gotta have some guys help keep the tank in shape!.... Can you tell I am totally EXCITED?!

 

[lgdav]

The tank 4 hours later....

 

[jgranata13]

A few bits of advice...
1. The cycle (which as you probably know is the collection of bacteria that facilitate the nitrogen cycle) occurs in your live rock, not I the water. This is why it's ok to do huge water changes - the proportion of beneficial bacteria in the water is very tiny.

2. That rock looks like it's not very good quality if you're relying on the Berlin method (which you most likely are - that's just the name for using live rock as the primary filtration method). You want rock that's super porous. If you buy more rock (which, in my opinion, you should) get the best quality (i.e. most porous) you can find. Don't skimp on that part. Also, choose rocks that won't compact so there's lots of space in between them for optimal water flow.

3. The only way the rock can filter your water is if the water actually moves past the rock. Get some power heads (such as the ever-popular Hydor Koralia) to circulate the water so that the toxins (ammonia and nitrite) can get to the bacteria on the rocks.

4. I would be careful with those pot decorations because salt has a way of eating through a lot of things and, if they're not made for saltwater, they could dissolve and have adverse effects on water chemistry and livestock.

5. Since all the rock and sand is already cycled, you should add some sort of fish fairly soon (otherwise the bacteria will start dying and you'll lose the cycle. Also make sure you have a test kit that tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph. Once you have a fish in there, test to see if the tank is going through another cycle (this will occur if the existing bacterial population isn't large enough for the amount of ammonia produced by the tank inhabitants). Once this cycle is over, you can add more fish.

6. I would say hold off on a cleanup crew until you see what algaes/pests/etc. are in your tank and in what quantities. If you buy the wrong kind/too many cleanup critters, they'll eventually starve because they won't have anything to eat. Once you see the specific problems in your tank, you can tailor a cleanup crew easily.

Hope that helps


Joseph Granata

 

[lgdav]

Thanks for all of your valuable information, Joseph!

I've been reading a lot about tank cycling so I understand what you are talking about. I was told by the guy who came that I'm going to need a stronger power head so it's on the list of items to buy. I just need to be patient and wait until I get my next paycheck- LOL! It's a hobby that I am funding on my own without relying on business or house funds. I could get it all right now, but I have to be true to my word to my hubby.

I'm searching for more rock. Thanks for the advice as to what kind! That points me in the right direction now.

The pot deco is safe for both saltwater as well as freshwater. I made sure of that. If they don't work out, then I'll take them out. I know that they will be gone by the time I decide to go into corals!

Thanks again for all of the info!!!.... Oh! I am going to get some cycling fish today after church. I will take another pic when they are in the tank!!!!!


~Liza

 

[Bectan01]

I wouldn't recommend cycling with fish - just use a raw shrimp to start the cycle. Its cruel to put fish through the poisonous cycling process and chances are they are fish you will want to get rid of after. Just be patient and cycle the tank properly and get the fish you want after...


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[lgdav]

Thanks for the recommendation, Bectan01! The store tells me that I can get some cycling fish because the water they brought over to me was cycled water. I'm not sure what my parameters are because I have to get the test kit. I'm researching to find my best option.

I have two questions for you:
(1) Do you still think it is cruel to put the fish through this process with already cycled water? I have read about the cycling using RO/DI water but it's not the case here. I'm interested to know what you think.

(2) What test kit would you recommend I get?

Thanks again!!!


~Liza

 

[jgranata13]

Hang on a sec... I thought the rock was already cycled? If not, then I agree with Bectan - just use a piece of raw shrimp to cycle. Otherwise, since you need some more rock anyways, you could buy some live (as opposed to dry)and use that to seed the rest. If you go with that route you could probably put one small fish in right away.


Joseph Granata

 

[jgranata13]

I didn't see your previous post... The thing about the water being "cycled" is absolute nonsense.

As for the test kit, I would recommend Seachem, RedSea, or Salifert; API isn't very good IMO. You can get a marine master kit from Seachem for $50.

Joseph Granata

 

[lgdav]

Thanks, Joseph!

The water came from water changes they did in the store. That's why they said it's already cycled. When I went to buy my stuff, the guy said they were just about to do water changes so they would give the water to me. Then the owner came out and poured it into my tank. Does this make sense? Is this a good practice on the LFS's part or was something not done right here?

Hmmm.... Now you guys have me thinking!!!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Water can not be cycled. If the fish store is telling you otherwise, they are only trying to "sell" items to you.
The cycle comes.from the bacteria that forms in the rocks.
I also agree that those rocks look really dense and not very beneficial. I would replace all that rock with about 20 lbs of good porous rock. Look for reef rock, figi, tonga, etc. Dry rock isuch cheaper than live rock, but will typically take longer to cycle.
I hate to say it but it seems like uour trusted LfS guy is giving you poor quality at probably top prices. Dont get discouraged, fact is, an LFS is out to sell, and usually do it at the expense of the livestock.
Also, I agree with fishless cycling, a cylce takes on average 4 weeks, and it is incredibly hard on any fish to live through. Best of luck!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Wow, just read your last post. they sold you used water? That is definitely no bueno. That water is the water you want to REMOVE from your tank with regular water changes. It is probably high in nitrates and low in alk/calcium. Even that water is not cycled, the beneficial bacteria is on the rocks and filtration media, not the water.
If I were you, I would seriously look into finding a new fish store. It actually makes me really mad that a store owner would be so shady.

 

[lgdav]

Thanks for the advice, Kimlafeiet! This is my first time and I am definitely learning as I go along.... Well, I am ordering some porous rocks through Amazon in a few minutes; I am searching for the test kit to add to my order.

 

[lgdav]

Oh!.... I already have another store that I will be going to from now on, too. I thought that what they were doing was best! I guess not. :/

 

[Mebbid]

Thanks for the recommendation, Bectan01! The store tells me that I can get some cycling fish because the water they brought over to me was cycled water. I'm not sure what my parameters are because I have to get the test kit. I'm researching to find my best option.

I have two questions for you:
(1) Do you still think it is cruel to put the fish through this process with already cycled water? I have read about the cycling using RO/DI water but it's not the case here. I'm interested to know what you think.

(2) What test kit would you recommend I get?

Thanks again!!!


~Liza

God, what an awful fish store....

I would 100% recommend that you bleach EVERYTHING in that tank, including the sand. You never ever want to put water from a lfs into your system because the chances of introducing pests is unbelievably high.

The advice given by the others is good advice as well.

 

[54seaweed]

the store tells me that i can get some cycling fish because the water they brought over to me was cycled water. I'm not sure what my parameters are because i have to get

no no no stop......
first off water does not hold the bb bacteria needed
rock and sand are what hold the bb ,
adding fish is only adding stress to the fish and it will be dead in a day if not sooner
adding a deli shrimp will boost your ammonia let it spike to about 4ppm than remove the shrimp now your cycle will begin takes between 4/8 weeks
first you will see your ammonia spike than nitrites than nitrates
once your ammonia goes down to 0ppm nitrites 0 nitrates come down to about 10ppm
now it's time for your first water change
in your 36g I would say 10g to drop the nitrates to almost 0ppm

now your cycled and ready to add your first fish
just remember go slow add 1 wait 3/4 weeks do this your first 3 fish than you can start 1 fish every 2 weeks untill you reach your stocking limit
most inverts should be added last so there's enough food to sustain them
please ignore your fish store as they are a tad off base
it is inhuman to kill a living creature to cycle your tank
when you get better results with a 25cent piece of shrimp
remember when I told you rushing gets you no where fast

 

[jgranata13]

I agree with Mebbid - throw out all the water and start again. Might as well clean everything with vinegar (except the rocks - just use hot water for those otherwise they could hold onto the vinegar and leach it back out later) to reduce the chance of any nasties that may have come in the water. Once everything's clean, full it up with clean saltwater and start cycling without fish.


Joseph Granata

 

[lgdav]

Thanks, guys! I'm going to buy the shrimp on Saturday.

I did my first batch of tests yesterday with the kit I ordered.

Marine PH 8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.01
Nitrate 0.05
Temp 78

I ordered 10 lbs of dry base rock from Amazon and I received it yesterday. I am planning to put them in the tank this weekend. They are 3 nice- sized pieces! I rinsed them well under tap water and they are on a towel drying off. Meanwhile, I am feeding my tank MicroBacter7 every morning.

I am going slow. I don't want to mess up! Therefore, all suggestions are more than welcomed!!!

 

[lgdav]

I'm going to test my water for the 2nd time soon. Meanwhile, I'm looking into purchasing parts to piece together a sump. What will I need? I'm thinking of:

a 20 gallon sump system
a 65- 75 gallon protein skimmer (I understand that I take my 36 gal and add it to the 20 gal to get 56 gal)
a (better) heater
a pump

What else? I'm building my list. I'very been reading about the advantages of protein skimmers and having a sump/ refugium and, based on what I learned, I'll try my best to get a sump in as soon as I can.

Thoughts?

 

[jgranata13]

Make sure you research a lot about how to plumb a sump. I would also suggest posting your design on here to have some people with experience in sumps give you suggestions. When I was designing my tank I spent six months designing and redesigning the sump/plumbing with a lot of help from more experienced people. However, I can say that I'm truly happy with how it turned out and I don't have any problems with it.

Also, if you're considering a refugium, I would suggest watching this debate from MACNA (the video's at the bottom of the article): http://reefbuilders.com/2014/09/29/good-refugiums-talks-macna-2014/

Specifically, Jake's points about trying to cram everything into one small space were really eye opening. Think about the things he talks about and that should help you decide what you really want out of your refugium and also how to maximize its efficiency.


Joseph Granata

 

[Sillyfishies]

Remember, were here for your best interest. We aren't trying to sell you anything. The LFS is.

A personally would never do a tank without a sump. If you don't want to build one, one off ebay may not be too bad ( 18 Gal Refugium Sump Wet Dry Aquarium Filter 30x9x15 Great Value High Quality | eBay )

Next, you need a powerhead. Jebao makes nice adjustable ones ( http://www.amazon.com/Jebao-WP-10-A...TF8&qid=1415586012&sr=8-1&keywords=jebao+wp10 )

Also, a skimmer. These are a bubble magus knock off and have good reviews
New SC Aquariums SCA 302 180 Gallon Protein Skimmer Slate Water Atman Pump Gift | eBay
Factory Direct Sale 65 Gallon Protein Skimmer SCA 301 | eBay

I would HIGHLY recommend your own RO/DI unit. This gives you pure water you can mix salt with.
Aquarium Reef Reverse Osmosis 5 Stage Ro Di System 50 GPD Made in USA | eBay

That should get you off to a good start!