AquaTricia 40 gal FOWLR

[AquaTricia]

I put the three Chromis and one cleaner shrimp in the tank on 3/13. How long should I wait to add a couple more?


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[AquaTricia]

It appears that I am losing a Chromis. He didn't come out to eat, and when he finally came out of the rock work, he was barely making it around and his body color had changed to a blue gray. He almost sat on the sand before he went back into the rocks. He was not panting, nor were his gills red. I have never seen him bullied, as they would mostly swim together. If he dies in the rock, I'll have a real problem getting him out. I have 40 lbs cemented together. I don't see him in any of the caves or tunnels. When he came out, the others did pick at him, but I've seen that happen to a sick or dead fish.


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[markodeniro]

How about you fish it out now before causing a problem later on? If he's that bad... Maybe? Saves another problem


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[AquaTricia]

My Chromis died. He was in the edge of the rock, so I was able to get him out. I'm watching the other two carefully. Thanks for responding.

 

[AquaTricia]

BigRed warned me about Chromis killing off one another, so I'm watching the last two. If it happens again, no more Chromis. Will have to redo my stocking list. It will be really short without them. Want "different" fish. Have to think about it.


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[BigRedsReefs10]

Sorry about the loss, sounds like stress but may not necessarily be from bullying, could just be the stress from tank transfers. Do you know the salinity of the water they came from the lfs was by chance?


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[AquaTricia]

Yes, I asked. 1.024. Mine is the same. I acclimated for about an hour and did a gentle release with no tank lights. Turned them on after actinics would normally be on, and fed the following morning. Nothing else in the tank but a cleaner shrimp. I am having trouble keeping the temperature stable but only by a degree and a half either way. I noticed another disturbing thing today. Neither of the remaining two are swimming around freely. They are both hiding in the rocks in the back of the tank. I just fed frozen mysis soaked in Vita-Chem and they did feed well, but only when the mysis was blown near the back of the tank.

 

[AquaTricia]

Since I lost my Chromis, the others have taken up residence in the rocks so the only time I even know they're there, is when I feed frozen before actinics come on for the night. They do not come out for morning feedings of flakes or pellets. Just cleaned the tank. Vacuumed the sand, wiped the inside glass and changed 10% of the water. Tank is cloudy with loose sand but skimmer is going crazy. Question: could my lighting be too bright? I have both actinics and whites about even during the day. My husband asked if that would affect them. Could anyone think of anything else, with this and the last posts in mind? I need some advice.


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[Sniperhank]

The lights aren't the issue. What you've done is disturb the sandbed, causing a nutrient spike. That is a ton of junk, food and poop, that has been released into the water column. That is why your skimmer is going nuts.
So, don't disturb your sandbed. Feed minimally and sparingly. Try to increase or adjust the flow through the tank to prevent the uneaten food or poop for collecting around your rocks and in the sandbed, this way it will be managed by your filtration rather than decaying through the nitrate cycle...or disturbed and spiked by disturbing the sandbed.

 

[AquaTricia]

Ok. I thought I was supposed to vacuum the sandbed. They were hiding before I vacuumed, so I guess I've really stressed them now. The tank is clearing rapidly, thanks to the skimmer.
Another question: if just vacuuming blew the sand around, won't the powerhead pointed relatively down and through the rocks?
Thanks for responding so quickly and straightening me out.

 

[Sniperhank]

It can, but I always suggest pointed up for better oxygen exchange.


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[markodeniro]

Do they come out with just actinics on?


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[AquaTricia]

No, they don't come out with just actinics only. I stayed up last night watching. The television is not far from the tank, and although we use headphones, there are still flashing lights.
I had a small powerhead pointed at the surface, but decided to reposition it after I moved the big one. The larger powerhead blew a lot of stuff up for the skimmer to get, then when I moved the small one down, a lot more blew up. I had hoped the return on the skimmer would provide enough oxygen exchange but it's not, so I'll move the small powerhead back to the surface. Every so often, I'll let it blow on the rocks and I'll use my turkey baster on cleaning day. Everything sound ok?

 

[markodeniro]

Maybe just leave them pointing at the surface and don't fiddle in the tank for a few days?


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[markodeniro]

What are your params?


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[AquaTricia]

Salinity 1.024
Temp 76.4

Haven't checked anything else since I cleaned the tank. Wanted to wait for the sand to settle. Yes, other than feeding, and testing tomorrow, I will leave the tank alone and, hopefully, they will start to feel more comfortable. Was hoping to get additional fish soon, but I'm going to wait until then.

 

[PB_Smith]

Ok. I thought I was supposed to vacuum the sandbed. They were hiding before I vacuumed, so I guess I've really stressed them now. The tank is clearing rapidly, thanks to the skimmer.
Another question: if just vacuuming blew the sand around, won't the powerhead pointed relatively down and through the rocks?
Thanks for responding so quickly and straightening me out.

if you have the habit of regularly using a gravel-vac when doing water changes, then you will not encounter the issues Sniperhank mentions.
that only happens whenever the substrate has been left undisturbed for extended periods and then messed with.

vaccing the detritus and crud out of the substrate also greatly minimize any type of nutrient spike.
now if you leave the substrate undisturbed for a couple of months and then stir it up and leave it in the tank, well of course you will have problems.

using a gravel vac won't hurt a darn thing, unless you smoosh something in the sand...

 

[PB_Smith]

as long as you are circulating the lower layers of water to the top and vice -versa, oxygenation is usually fine. Oxygen will saturate the upper portion of the water column to about 1/2" almost instantaneously, so if you have it so the column of water is being fully circulated, it will generally stay oxygenated.
Disturbing the surface of the water creates greater water surface area for the gas exchange to take place, a rippled surface has more area than a smooth one.


there are times when you will need to increase the oxygen levels, when dealing with infection of course, bacterial blooms, DIATOM blooms, (basically any situation that clouds the water is also going to impose breathing difficulties on the fish), high temps, and if your system supports a large biological filter as the bacteria are the biggest oxygen consumers we have in our tanks.
that is one of the theories behind wet/dry trickle filters, there is so much air/water contact area that the bacteria do not need to utilize oxygen from the system water at as great a rate resulting in higher oxygen levels in the display. It works but has other caveats to it.


I have mine set-up with dual returns in each corner that oscillate back and forth at the surface and then in the center back of the tank is a powerhead pulling water from the top third of the tank and pumping it down to about 2" above the substrate blowing along both back walls and out to the front center.
so far it works pretty good at keeping the tank oxygen rich and debris kept in suspension until they reach the overflow and are removed.

 

[AquaTricia]

Thanks for all the responses. I did move the small powerhead back up top, which keeps the water agitated right above it, but is slowly rippling the rest of the tank, left to right. I am just ending a diatom bloom, so I need the extra oxygenation. As this is a new tank, I expected diatoms, but had a full blown case, and was concerned it was Dinos for a while.
I read everything I can, and own over 50 books on fresh and salt, cichlids and reefs. There are so many opinions, from prominent authors, that I try to follow their advice, but even some of that differs. The guys on this site (and gals) handle day to day individual problems and, I believe, help those of us that are doing something new with things that are common to the average aquarist. So, I follow the advice here more than the books. The problem is, everyone still sees things differently. Should I, or should I not, vacuum the sand every couple of weeks? It did cloud my tank a lot, and moving the powerheads to blow on the rocks sent up additional clouds. Question is, did the cloudy tank stir up gunk my fish shouldn't be breathing? Is there a general consensus?

 

[Sniperhank]

Don't stir a sandbed. One of the reasons comes from the bacteria that grow in there that you want live in oxygen free zones...stir it and bring oxygen in means dead or no bacteria growth. That and there are other things that live in the sandbed that you want in there that you'll end up sucking out.
As for the cloudy tank, as long as it isn't long lasting things will be just fine and it shouldn't worry you.