Bio Wheel or No Bio Wheel - How is my filtration?

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mnestroy

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
72
Location
Downers Grove, IL
Question about my filtration.

I have a 40g Breeder

- AquaC Remora Pro with Mag Drive 3 Protein Skimer
- Eheim 2026 Professioanel II Series Canister Filter
- Emperor 400 Hang on Filter (with two bio wheels)
- 2 Rio 600 Powerheads
- 40Pounds of live rock

How does this sound as far as my filtration goes? I can't seem to get my Nitrates below 20, I was wondering if it is because of the bio wheels?

Any other comments on my filtration? (is it good enough, etc?)
 
Yeah, might lower nitrates by ditching the biowheels. What media do you have in the canister? Frequent cleaning of your canister media may also help. Some people like to remove thier canister media and just use the canister as a pump, and for carbon. The live rock should be able to handle all your biological filtration needs with enough circulation. The skimmer should be removing most of what a floss pad/filter would remove.
 
Filter Media

In my canister filter I have:

Ehfisubstrat Pro
Eheim Ehfimech
Coarse and Fine Filter Pads

My hang on filter just has 4 standard floss/Carbon pads in it.


So what are you guy suggesting I make changes to my filteration?
 
If you want low nitrates, necessary for healthy invertabrate growth, then you need to reduce the total amount of biological filtering you have, and trust the skimmer to remove waste products before they break down. Or step up the water change schedule. (I assume your replacement water has ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings of 0?) Or get a refugium. With a fish only tank though, I don't think you need to be overly concerned about nitrates of 20.
 
How many fish do you have and what size are they? How long has your tank been set up? How often do you clean your filters? How often do you feed and what do you feed? How often do you perform pwc and what %? Without knowing this it’s hard to say why your no3 won’t drop below 20 ppm. It could be you’re just overstocked, overfeeding, or not cleaning the filters weekly.

I'm slightly overstocked in my 55 gal, have 90 lbs of lr, a sump with skimmer and fuge, and perform 20% pwc each week to keep my no3 undetectable or less then 5 ppm.

I have two bio-wheels on my main hooked up to a mag 350 canister but clean weekly to keep waste from building up which leads to no3 and have a sponge pre-filter on the intake which I clean every other day.
 
My Tank

Okay, hers my info :)

Tank has been up almost 2.5months

1. Clown Fish
2. Two Damsels that survived the cycle
3. Tiny Tiny Tiny Blue tang (smaller than my clown fish)
4. 3 Snails
5. 10-12 tiny hermit crabs

I do admit to probaly feeding more than i should, but whatever food I put int he tank the fish eat all of it up within minutes.... I feed Frozen brineshrimp, flakes, and some dried seaweed (which i told the tang woud like, but he doesnt liek it)

Like I mentioned above its a 40 gallon, I do weekly 20% water changes for now, cause I keep adding more live rock (maybe thats the source??)

My protein skimmer doesnt pull to much stuff out of the water, but others have told me thatis normal because i might have clean water.
 
Is the live rock you're adding pre-cured?

Sometimes skimmers have to be tweaked to get peak performance. Check out your manual for the adjusments on your skimmer.
 
Your bio-load is fine and if your fish are consuming the food within minutes I don’t think you’re overfeeding. Could be your lr hasn’t fully cured and is still adding nh3 to the tank if added within the last week or so. If it’s cured lr or has been in the tank for more then a month then it probably isn’t the cause.

I would replace all media in the Eheim 2026 with lr rubble, use a pre-filter sponge on the intake for the canister and Emperor 400 to keep food waste from being sucked up and rinse those well at least twice a week in old SW.

You have enough lr to do away with the bio-wheels completely in the Emperor 400 and I would also remove any filter media within that and just use to circulate the water. If you do decide to remove the bio-wheels then remove one of them and a month later remove the last one so your lr has time to adjust its bacterial base.

If not cleaned weekly both the canister and Emperor 400 will accumulate enough waste to keep your no3 level high. The bio-wheels are excellent for turning nh3 to no3 but does nothing to convert the no3 to nitrogen like your lr/ls does.

By removing the filter media and adding pre-filter sponges you will greatly reduce any areas for waste to accumulate outside the tank and therefore reduce your no3 levels assuming you are diligent about rinsing the sponges off every couple of days.
 
Filter Media

So your saying remove all this stuff from my canister filter? then whey even use it? :)

Ehfisubstrat Pro
Eheim Ehfimech
Coarse and Fine Filter Pads

If its just going to move water then a powerhead would save me a lot of money on electricity.

And what of myhangon filter? If I have no meida in there why bother?
 
Good question, besides having a bunch of ugly ph in the tank there is no reason since you have enough lr for biological filtration besides the occasional use of AC or other media if not using a sump.

I really don’t think you would save that much money by using ph instead though. Also I use my canister and bio-wheels on the main so I can transfer one of my bio-wheels to my QT for instant bio-filtration. Other then that I wouldn’t bother either.
 
Filters

I just want to lower my Nitrates...

I always figured more filtration the better, but if the biowheels and filter pads are hording bad bacteria maybe they arent good?

I've done 30% water changes once a week and still cant lower it.

One thing i've noticed is my protein skimmer barely pulls any waste out of the water... Any suggestions?
 
Re: Filters

mnestroy said:
I always figured more filtration the better, but if the biowheels and filter pads are hording bad bacteria maybe they arent good?
Not bad bacteria, but too much of a good thing. Your aquarium wouldn't survive without a decent population of these bacteria, but any filtering surface that you can't/won't clean frequently will trap dirt particles and eventually turn them into nitrate.
 
Re: Filters

mnestroy said:
if the biowheels and filter pads are hording bad bacteria maybe they arent good?
It’s not the “extra bacteria” that causes the excess no3. It’s the extra waste that gets trapped within the filters that breaks down and causes excess no3. By cleaning more frequently or eliminating waste from being trapped you greatly reduce your no3.

That is why lr and skimmers are used to filter reef tanks because with the bulk of your biological filtration happening all within the tank there are little places that waste can build up if you have a decent cleaning crew. The skimmer helps pull the waste from the water before it ever settles within the tank.

Also the bio-wheels only convert nh3 to no3 since there isn’t any oxygen deprived bacteria to convert the no3 to nitrogen which escapes the tank as a harmless gas. The lr/ls does have this bacteria to help combat no3.
 
Hmm

Okay bottom line me :)

40 Galon Tank.....

- AquaC Remora Pro with Mag Drive 3 Protein Skimer
- Eheim 2026 Professioanel II Series Canister Filter
- Emperor 400 Hang on Filter (with two bio wheels)
- 2 Rio 600 Powerheads
- 40Pounds of live rock


Do I keep things the way they are, or get rid of the Emperor? or the canister? I just had 3 fish die over the weekend and i'm still trying to figure out what went wrong, all my stuff looks okay cept for my Nitrates which are high...

I've done water changes every 3rd day (15%) still wont lower.
 
Get rid of the emperor, or at least any media in it before the biowheel.
Get rid of the media in the canister, keep the canister itself as a pump, and for emergency carbon usage.

The above actions will get rid of the trapped debris turning into nitrates problem, but there may be a second issue at hand if that many water changes isn't helping.

What is the nitrate reading of the water you are putting into the aquarium on each water change? Are you using tap or RO water? What brand of salt are you using? What is your water change routine?

20 ppm nitrates should not cause fish death. There is another factor involved that we have not yet discovered.
 
You only had 4 to begin with so I assume you are down to 1 (probably a damsel). Did you ever have any trace of nh3/no2 when you added the new lr? I agree that no3 of 20 ppm or less would not cause fish deaths but any trace of nh3/no2 can be fatal within hours if not caught in time.
 
I am using Insant Ocean salt... is that okay?

I have 2 Damsels.... they have been around the longest... They look sickly... I think thought they had Ich but in another forum they said because my shrimp also died its not likely ich.

In the morning when I turn the lights on, I do see white spots all over them, almost looks like tiny air... but by 8pm their skin looks fine?

I will test my tap water tonight.

I did add 10more pounds of live rock last week, but it was from a pet store that was in a tank, it actualy had 2 large feather dusters attached, so I assumed the rock was oaky... the amomnia levels didnt spike after, and still read 0.
 
i didnt read all the posts so sorry if im repeating but my advice would be to remove all micanical filter media i use an emperor 280 on my tank no cartridge you can keep the wheels as for the canister i would remove the media and use it for flow
 
Could this be the reason for the los sof my fish?

could the reason the loss of my fish is caseu of my tap water?

the local fish store in same town said i should treat the water first, cause the tap water have hih chorline?
 
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