Can't keep fish but inverts are fine???

[lakaiguy]

Specs:
29g tank
Koralia PH 550 gph
HOB filter 250 gph (no media)
35-40 lbs live rock
20 lbs live sand

Stock:
1 cleaner shrimp
1 peppermint shrimp
3 astraea snails
4 nas snails
1 fighting conch

Parameters:
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20-40 nitrate
8.0 ph
1.023 salinity
74-76 temperature

Body count:
4 occ clowns
1 coral beauty (havent actually seen body)

Wtf

The cuc were obviously the first additions and they've been thriving since day one.

I started the tank about 7 weeks ago. Cycling was quick I used all live stuff.
I buy all my water from the lfs, salt and ro/di. Been doing weekly 20% pwc. Acclimating has been drip always, fish do fine for couple days to about two weeks for the coral beauty.

 

[Trueerfan]

Good luck, I'm new at this also...

 

[54seaweed]

are you adding all the fish at once ?
your tank is still new add slowly
give your tank a chance to build a bio load
rushing don't get you anywhere fast
temp is a lil low too

 

[Beengirl]

Temp would be better at 76-78. Just add fish 1 at a time, then wait a week or 2 before adding another. There's no rush, the tank isn't going anywhere.

 

[Elude82]

All your parameters are fine. My tank is usually at 78. It's the other way around, inverts are suppose to be more difficult than fish to keep, because they are more sensitive to parameter changes. Maybe the fish are getting stressed. What kind of fish have you tried? And what exactly are their symptoms before death?

 

[Elude82]

Nm, saw the list. Hmmm??? Angels are not always easy to keep. They aren't always for beginners, and can tend to be picky eaters. Clowns are usually tough little guys. How is the circulation in the tank.

 

[lakaiguy]

I added 2 clowns first

They did great for a week so then I added the coral beauty

Shortly after one clown died and the next clown a couple days later

The coral beauty lasted about 2 weeks

They all seemed fine for a while then they started eating funny and died

It's just too weird that all my inverts are doing soooo well but these "hardy" fish are dropping like flies

 

[obscurereef]

Cycling and adding that many fish in a 7 week period is really fast. Maybe the bacteria couldn't handle the bio load you were putting on the tank just after it cycled. CUCs I've found to be pretty hardy... As you may have learned, slow and steady is best!

 

[nikki_kaiser]

Specs:
29g tank
Koralia PH 550 gph
HOB filter 250 gph (no media)
35-40 lbs live rock
20 lbs live sand

Stock:
1 cleaner shrimp
1 peppermint shrimp
3 astraea snails
4 nas snails
1 fighting conch

Parameters:
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20-40 nitrate
8.0 ph
1.023 salinity
74-76 temperature

Body count:
4 occ clowns
1 coral beauty (havent actually seen body)

Wtf

The cuc were obviously the first additions and they've been thriving since day one.

I started the tank about 7 weeks ago. Cycling was quick I used all live stuff.
I buy all my water from the lfs, salt and ro/di. Been doing weekly 20% pwc. Acclimating has been drip always, fish do fine for couple days to about two weeks for the coral beauty.

When they died, was it all of the sudden or did you notice a decline? For example, did they sit at the bottom or was there rapid breathing?

 

[54seaweed]

I added 2 clowns first

They did great for a week so then I added the coral beauty

Shortly after one clown died and the next clown a couple days later

The coral beauty lasted about 2 weeks

They all seemed fine for a while then they started eating funny and died

It's just too weird that all my inverts are doing soooo well but these "hardy" fish are dropping like flies

how big were the clowns and how big was the coral beauty

reason I ask is I think you may have added the coral beauty a tad to soon that young of a tank needs a little time to establish a good bio load to handle the bigger fish (coral beauty)
almost sounds like it threw your tank into another mini cycle and the fish just couldn't keep up with it

 

[lakaiguy]

There was a sharp decline when they died.

The clowns seemed happy as can be for at least a week then one stopped eating and died a couple days later and the next one followed.

They were pretty small, the clowns were around an inch and the coral beauty was just over an inch

The whole "new tank bio load" thing seems bogus because again all the inverts are flourishing and I did go relatively slow.

 

[54seaweed]

The whole "new tank bio load" thing seems bogus because again all the inverts are flourishing and I did go relatively slow.

First of all no one here will steer you wrong
We all went through what you are facing now one time or another . no one wants to see anyone fail ,
If I ignored the bio load issues when I started I wouldn't have the striving tank I have today ..
you can achieve the same thing , it's called patients
rushing through all the procedures to maintain a healthy tank don't happen over night , your tank is young and it has minimal needed bacteria to handle the load .
When I started I had a clown and clean up crew , I ran my system this way almost 2/12 months letting the bacteria needed build ,

example:
you added a CUC than 2 clowns your load was diminished ,

you just took the bio load you had and made it drop to almost nothing (it's like 100% - 20% for your CUC - 75% for the 2 clowns = 5% load left adding the coral beauty took another 50%)
now if you look at it in that form you may understand better , now your in the negative 45%

it needs time to rebuild at least a few weeks 3/4 minimal

by adding the coral beauty that soon overloaded the tank causing tragic and costly losses

salt water is not as hard to keep as many say ,

IMO the hardest part is taking your time and waiting !!!
If I rushed through it all on my tank I wouldn't have the tank I have today ,
If the bio load theory was bogus why is it many have success and your having the issues!!
it's not rocket science

many people go through this it's not just you
research is your best friend

we all are here to help you get it right the first time
saltwater is not a cheap hobby and we know the frustration of losing a fish
ask questions

(The my way is the only way attitude) will result in many more lost fish I'm sorry to say
we want you to succeed and have a tank you can be proud of . with minimal loss of live stock

I have well over 40 years of fish keeping experience and I still need to ask for help at times
and with everyone here theirs many more years of experience if you put it all together

I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain

Remember ask questions we will help

 

[TheTodd]

But wouldn't inverts die before fish (in most cases) if parameters were out of whack? His seem pretty okay though. If there was not enough BB, and too much bio load, wouldn't the parameters be worse? If anything, it seems like everything should be dead with too high of a bio load and not just the fish. At least the snails and shrimp. That's kinda the way I've always understood it, but I'm no expert.

 

[begginersluck]

I remember my first nano about a year ago and i had so many problems with it.

Personally i think you would have an easier ride if your tank was bigger. Best decision i ever made was getting rid of the old little tank and getting a decent size one.

 

[Zactheninja]

I generally add about one fish a month.

Only time I broke that rule was when I added two clowns.
But I already had fish and coral going well when I did that so it went okay.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

I agree about your temperature. It would be better at 78.

How are you acclimating them? It could also be a problem at the fish shop. Some places are much better than others.

 

[lakaiguy]

Thanks for all the insight everyone, it's been very helpful

Question: If the bio load did in fact exceed my tanks ability wouldn't that show when testing water parameters?

 

[54seaweed]

NO ....

 

[lakaiguy]

Huh

Ok then maybe I am all wrong.

How can you measure the strength of a systems beneficial bacteria?

 

[TheTodd]

I must be all wrong too. I would expect that if your bio load overwhelms your beneficial bacteria, you would end up with something in excess in your parameters. Otherwise, what is the new factor that is killing the fish?