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Old 06-29-2010, 08:29 PM   #11
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Did I miss something ?? If you put a copper med. into your tank and you take out your filter media (that you said you put back in later) the copper would still penetrate into your substrate. So technically you'd never really get rid of the copper, and it would kill off your beneficial bacteria in your canister filter.

I'm no SW expert at all, and i'm far from it. But your reasoning is way wrong (imo). Since you can't have any CUC in your tank, I assume you do a heck of alot vacuming to keep your nitrates down ??
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:45 PM   #12
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Ok you make a good point I guess by removing the chem bio from the canister would and could kill the bacteria I truly dont know. I was simply following the instructions. and I do not know what CUC stands for, sorry for my ignorance. I dont vacum the substrate at all I get an occasional brown algea breakout but it usually dies down in a couple of weeks. I do blow my rock off every week with a turkey baster. There really isnt anything in the tank other than uneaten food to cause any growth. Again I am fairly new to all of this this is my second go around with these tanks the first was 6 yrs ago and I had no experience then. I am just trying to keep the tank simple for fish and I only treated the tank with copper when ich was present on a fish. My levels have been the following for over three months P.H 8.4 Nitrate-40 Amonia-0 Nitrite-0 the Nitrate varys between 20 and 40. Salinity is at .019 I just did a Nitrate tesy again and it is a bit high it is all of 40 right now I think part of that is over feeding My girl gets carried away sometimes and dumps to much Mysis in the tank. I am assuming the only way to bring it down lower is to do a larger water change. I didnt think it was that critical since I keep no inverts in the tank.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:48 PM   #13
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CUC is your clean up crew. Snails, hermits, stars etc etc. What kind of substrate do you have, a crushed coral or a sand ?? Your brown algea outbreak is typically silicates and will go away almost as fast as they came.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:59 PM   #14
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I do have a few snails in the tank as snacks for my Burrfish, he likes cracking the shells and then eats the snail maybe one a month. I had a hermit in ther but either he came out to molt or the burrfish sucked him out and feasted on most of him. I am planning on getting another one this week. My tank is very much a meat eaters tank.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:04 PM   #15
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I have 60 lbs of premium argonite reef snd for substrate. I wanted a good base so my snowflake eel could dig if he wanted I wish I would have thought that through a little better, if I had it to do again it would be 1/2 that much. I know I will eventually have to purge alot of it out.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:08 PM   #16
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Wait... 38G with a snowflake? What's the footprint and total stocking? You may really need to rethink everything IMO.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:12 PM   #17
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No its a 72 gallon bow front and the stock is 1 stripped burrfish, 1 longhorn cowfish, 1 small one spot damsel, 1 snowflake eel. I will be adding one medium volitan yet and the tank will be complete. I know 72 is a bit small for the size that these fish may get, if they do live that long I will migrate them into a 150 gallon.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:48 PM   #18
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Sorry about that. I read the wrong my tanks info. Total user error.

Kurt and Mike both know a ton more than me and have given you very good advice. Treat the fish and not the tank. Ich is only one of a myriad of possible conditions requiring treatment and copper may not even be involved.
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Old 07-03-2010, 09:31 PM   #19
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more information

Quote:
Originally Posted by milhous3er View Post
Did I miss something ?? If you put a copper med. into your tank and you take out your filter media (that you said you put back in later) the copper would still penetrate into your substrate. So technically you'd never really get rid of the copper, and it would kill off your beneficial bacteria in your canister filter.

I'm no SW expert at all, and i'm far from it. But your reasoning is way wrong (imo). Since you can't have any CUC in your tank, I assume you do a heck of alot vacuming to keep your nitrates down ??
I have now learned that copper in a tank does NOT kill bacteria only a antibiotic will kill bacteria. Copper kills parasites. I have also learned that a fish can go without eating for months. Ich will kill a fish long before starvation. I have also learned quarentining a fish may reduce the chances of a parasite entering your main tank but does not gaurentee it. For the most part if you have a tank full of expensive fish and are going to introduce a new fish and want to greatly reduce the risk of infection you should pretreat the tank with copper before the fish is tanked. I have also learned when introducing a new fish I need to keep a closer eye on my exsisting fish and if I see any odd behavior or feeding change expect the worse and dose with copper and be aggresive with it. Most fish can handle a much higher dosage of copper than reccomended.

As far as nitrates staying down it is better that they remain low but not critical if having a CUC is not possible then more frequent water changes and bio chem zorb changes will effectively keep the nitrate level in check.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxfishlover View Post
I have now learned that copper in a tank does NOT kill bacteria only a antibiotic will kill bacteria. Copper kills parasites. I have also learned that a fish can go without eating for months. Ich will kill a fish long before starvation. I have also learned quarentining a fish may reduce the chances of a parasite entering your main tank but does not gaurentee it. For the most part if you have a tank full of expensive fish and are going to introduce a new fish and want to greatly reduce the risk of infection you should pretreat the tank with copper before the fish is tanked. I have also learned when introducing a new fish I need to keep a closer eye on my exsisting fish and if I see any odd behavior or feeding change expect the worse and dose with copper and be aggresive with it. Most fish can handle a much higher dosage of copper than reccomended.

As far as nitrates staying down it is better that they remain low but not critical if having a CUC is not possible then more frequent water changes and bio chem zorb changes will effectively keep the nitrate level in check.
I'm sorry I have so many things against this post.
Copper should NEVER be added to a DT. The truth is, you don't know exactly what you are killing off. There is more then just copper in a lot of meds, and pouring them into your DT can trigger a multitude of things. If you dose with another med down the road, you are risking mixing chemicals that should not be mixed. I can't think of the combos off the top of my head, but I know there are certain meds that shouldn't be mixed.
Saying quarantining a fish will not completely prevent a transfer of parasites is like saying you can still get sick with a flu vaccination. Yes you can, but there is a 99.7% chance you won't. If you have a tank full of expensive fish, you should always QT new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks, and that's if the fish was completely healthy for the whole 2 weeks.
You are right about observing your fish, some things can go unnoticed if you aren't looking. IME though its better to treat them separately, instead of bombing some healthy, some sick fish with a myriad of medications.
Also, I would expect to see some of your CUC die off, inverts and corals have a very low tolerance to copper.
I don't mean to preach, JM .02
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