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Old 07-06-2010, 12:33 PM   #21
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two weeks isn't nearly long enough even if the fish shows no outwad signs of ich.

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:37 PM   #22
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Let me see where to start. Where are you getting your info? Just wondering. 1) Copper kills parasites but it also kills inverts like snails, crabs and shrimp. It also kills corals.
2) Fish cannot survive for months without eating. They can go a few weeks. And even at that why would you want to subject them to starvation.
3) Ich will kill period if not treated
4) I personally dont agree with treating fish unless you know what the problem is and what you are treating for. One of the main purposes for the QT is observation. Some fish have a hard time with copper.

These are some of the things I have a problem with. You might be better off to seek out experiences of others than where you are getting your info from.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:58 PM   #23
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Ok I do not know what DT stands for so I cannot respond to that until I do. But if DT is short for my main tank then let me ask this if ich is detected in a tank for whatever reason are you saying that rather than treat the tank that every fish should come out and be quarentined and then treated with copper? I guess that would be the ideal thing to do but here is my thought on that....1. I do not have the room to set up a big enough quarentine tank to house all of my fish, because if ich gets in the tank I promise all of the fish in the tank have it to one degree or another. 2. If my fish are already ailing the last thing I want to do is stress them more by netting and moving them. As far as I know copper is one of the most effective and safe ways to treat fish with ich. As far as mixing chemiclas down the road I have been told if enough water changes are done and a good chemical filtration system is in place that any other meds including antibiotics will not harm a tank. As far as CUC goes I usually only keep red hermits in my tank and copper does not harm them. if I did decide to try to keep any other clean up in the tank like snails I would move them to my invert tank before dosing the tank and return them when the levels have diminished. Let me also add that everything in my tank had ich last week (my latest addition must have been a carrier) and I treated with copper and everyone is healthy and eating again. I have 7 more days left on the treatment and will then put my bio chem back and do a 20% water change. Once the bio is returned it usually takes less than 24 hours and my copper levels are barely traceable. Maybe I have alot to learn here I dont know. I value the advice on here but also value the advice from my business contact who has been in the aquatics business for 30 years.
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melosu58 View Post
Let me see where to start. Where are you getting your info? Just wondering. 1) Copper kills parasites but it also kills inverts like snails, crabs and shrimp. It also kills corals.
2) Fish cannot survive for months without eating. They can go a few weeks. And even at that why would you want to subject them to starvation.
3) Ich will kill period if not treated
4) I personally dont agree with treating fish unless you know what the problem is and what you are treating for. One of the main purposes for the QT is observation. Some fish have a hard time with copper.

These are some of the things I have a problem with. You might be better off to seek out experiences of others than where you are getting your info from.
My information comes from a place called Aqautic Imports in Appleton WI the owner is Jeff Manske. And I realize what copper will kill thats why my tank is just for fish. I do try to keep a red hermit in there for clean up but my tank is full of carnevoirs who love inverts so my options are limited. And you are wrong about how long a fish can go without eating call the Shed Aquarium in Chicago. Maybe not all types of fish but many can go up to 6 months with no food and survive. I would never starve my fish but I was always concerned when they would not eat that they would starve and was informed they would not. I was just stating a fact. As far as observation goes I agree but have learned the hard way observing to long, by losing fish. Ich can be present without being visable on the fish. Maybe when I post I need to be specific with the type of fish I have, they are box fish and puffers which are different than the average fish tank. My apologies for any confusion. I honestly do not know how copper affects other types of fish. I just know it is very affective for ich. I will keep reading and learning. Thanks everyone
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:14 PM   #25
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DT = Display Tank / Main Tank
It comes down to how you want to do things, if you are OK dosing and you know the consequences, then its your choice. Know that even if your copper levels are barely detectable, its still there, it seeps in the rock work and other things and you will never be completely rid of it. IMO moving all your fish to a QT is not the ideal solution, its the responsible one. If you dont have the space or whatever to provide this, then I would argue you aren't completely setup enough to keep the things that you are.
While netting the fish and moving them does stress them, it is the better solution in the long run, seeing as their conditions in a QT are much more controlled and stable, making their recovery faster and easier.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, just telling you my opinions on the matter. We all have our own slightly different views and methods.
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:15 PM   #26
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You dont have to use copper to treat ich. DT is display tank. I know you are new here so I will tell you this, Melosu58, Captainahab, kurt_nelson,HN1, and jimbo7, all give great advice with the fish in mind. Combined I would say many more than 30 years experience.
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:34 PM   #27
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I want everyone to know I value the advice and will be working on getting at least one QT tank set up. Hopefully it wont be an issue much longer my DT is almost complete. Once it is hopefully with a good schedule everyone will stay healthy and all of this will be a non issue. One of the reasons I do not QT when I purchase a fish is my lfs orders my fish for me and she holds them for 2 weeks before I take them and I observe there for any bad signs. Again my friend Jeff tells me that less than 10% of us actually QT fish prior to tanking them. Due to many different reasons. Anyway I do want to run my tank schedule by you guys and get some feedback.

Both my tanks get a 10% water change every week. I change the bio chem zorb in my big tank every two weeks (overkill I know) I try to leave the media alone unless I see my water return slow down. I run a Rena XP3 on my 72 gallon. I change the carbon in my 10 gallon once a month only because it does not see nearly as much frozen food in it. Once a month I remove my fake plants and rinse them off and clean the glass in the back of the tank. I try not to disturb the substrate very often unless it has alot of brown deposit in it. I blow the rock off once a month with a Turkey baster. I do not vacuum at all my past experience with vacuuming seems to have hurt the fish or something 6 yrs ago when I first had these tanks up it seemed like everytime I vaccumed I lost a fish. I fee my big tank 3 times a day with a combination of frozen krill, mysis & brine shrimp. Depends on what everyone is hungry for. I know I over feed my nitrate levels tell me so and the fact I need another red hermit since Spike snacked on the last one when he was molting!! I keep my salinity lower on my big tank around .018 temp is a steady 78. My invert tank I keep at .021 and 78 as well. Wow am I rambling anyway if anyone wants to advise or educate me beyond here feel free to call me anytime 920-915-9020 and again thanks for the input.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:26 PM   #28
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I actually found an old post reffering to my friend and his shop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfan View Post
I stopped by Aquatic Imports in Green Bay, WI after going to the airshow in Oshkosh and picked up some new stuff. He has a ton of good coral, fish and freshwater stuff. I'm always impressed. He even threw in a free $40 coral after I bought a $60 and $25 coral because he said it was a slow day. Not too bad. He's thrown in free frozen food often, but a free coral was cool.

Just wanted to plug this guy, he's a real responsible lfs and that's rare.

He is located on Clay st (kind of, actually, his house is on clay, and his shop is the one story masonry building behind. It's large and hard to miss. If you need more in terms of directions, just let me know.

Oh yeah, he also always provides me with a styrafoam cooler box since he knows I drive three hours back home every time I stop in. Just good service.
Granted he has since moved to Appleton and this was in 2002 but he really does know his stuff.
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Aquatic Imports in Green Bay, WI
I stopped by Aquatic Imports in Green Bay, WI after going to the airshow in Oshkosh and picked up some new stuff. He has a ton of good coral, fish and freshwater stuff. I'm always impressed. He even threw in a free $40 coral after I bought a $60 and $25 coral because he said it was a slow day. Not too bad. He's thrown in free frozen food often, but a free coral was cool.

Just wanted to plug this guy, he's a real responsible lfs and that's rare.

He is located on Clay st (kind of, actually, his house is on clay, and his shop is the one story masonry building behind. It's large and hard to miss. If you need more in terms of directions, just let me know.

Oh yeah, he also always provides me with a styrafoam cooler box since he knows I drive three hours back home every time I stop in. Just good service.

Bearfan
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Aquatic Imports in Green Bay, WI
I stopped by Aquatic Imports in Green Bay, WI after going to the airshow in Oshkosh and picked up some new stuff. He has a ton of good coral, fish and freshwater stuff. I'm always impressed. He even threw in a free $40 coral after I bought a $60 and $25 coral because he said it was a slow day. Not too bad. He's thrown in free frozen food often, but a free coral was cool.

Just wanted to plug this guy, he's a real responsible lfs and that's rare.

He is located on Clay st (kind of, actually, his house is on clay, and his shop is the one story masonry building behind. It's large and hard to miss. If you need more in terms of directions, just let me know.

Oh yeah, he also always provides me with a styrafoam cooler box since he knows I drive three hours back home every time I stop in. Just good service.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:29 PM   #29
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Home here is his website
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Old 07-06-2010, 04:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
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...Maybe I have alot to learn here I dont know. I value the advice on here but also value the advice from my business contact who has been in the aquatics business for 30 years.
You keep saying you're appreciative of the advice here, but you refute just about all of it with statements about what you've "learned" and what your LFS tells you. This does not give the appearance of one with an open mind about learning. And yes... you DO have a lot to learn here.
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