Do I HAVE to have a sump/refugium?

[GreenMonster]

I've had fresh water aquarium experience in the past and am looking to invest in a saltwater fowlr setup. I'm trying to decide between a 40g breeder or a 75g tank. I'd like to use HOB filters with a biowheel, but I really do not wish to have a sump/refugium. I'm just wondering if anyone has or is using this setup?

 

[joy13]

No you don't need a sump or fuge. I have a 45 gallon reef tank with a HOB filter it is rated for 110 gallons. If you have live rock and sand that is where most of your bacteria is anyway. Bigger is always better I don't know maybe you could use 2 ac 110 on a 75. Personally I have seen what saltwater does to a biowheel and it isn't worth the hassle.

 

[GreenMonster]

Phew that's a relief! I think I'm goof to go with the 75g then. What are some different kinds of filters that you recommend? Thank you for your help

 

[Fishguy2727]

Although a sump or a refugium is not a requirement for any saltwater tank, there are many reasons why they are so popular. To start with they add a lot of volume, which helps a lot with chemical stability. They also offer somewhere to hide a lot of equipment. Saltwater tanks can be a lot more complete and balanced as a whole than freshwater, IF you rely on natural filtration. As stated the live rock is most of your filtration, but the other two most valuable forms are a protein skimmer and a refugium. In addition, a sump uses an overflow which helps keep the surface of the tank clean, which is a problem in many tanks.

HOBs, canisters, etc. are all filters made for freshwater tanks. When used on marine tanks they usually do little more than trap a bunch of debris that will sit and rot, lowering the water quality unless you clean the filter every single month without exception, ever.

It can be done, but a system that is setup the best will run the best, and I wouldn't consider standard HOBs and canisters as doing that. They will create a lot of unnecessary maintenance.

 

[GreenMonster]

I'll look into getting a sump, but it's the refugium that I am really not looking to get. I do plan on having quite a bit of live rock and using two HOB filters that are rated double of which ever sized gallon tank that I decide to buy, as well as adding a protein skimmer. Changing the filters every month won't be a problem, as I do this already with my freshwater tank

 

[carey]

I currently have a55g that runs with a fluval canister and a remora skimmer. Couldnt have kept the water any cleaner even with a refugium if I had gone with the sump. I just made sure to do my monthly canister maintenance. I didn't overstock or overfeed too much lol, and I kept 0 trates and had no algae issues to speak of. The water also looked crystal clear, I rotated months with carbon though so that can help.

 

[joy13]

If you get a skimmer I would highly recommend a sump. I haven't had much luck with the HOB skimmers I have tried 3 of them, if they do work they put micro bubbles in the tank something I didn't like.

 

[GreenMonster]

I'll keep that in mind Carey thank you! I'm looking to build my stock list around ocellaris clownfish. I figure I'll get a pair of them and maybe a pacific blue tang if I go with a 75g, any idea as to what my fish capacity limit would be? Also, what are some other fish suggestions that would be compatible with clownfish?

 

[carey]

I CAN tell you you'll need at least a 6 foot tank for the tang. :-(

It all depends on yoru fish load and how many. Some are messier than others. lol

You can look into blennies, gobies and dottybacks, maybe a kole tang or a tomini tang.

check out Aquarium Fish: Tropical Freshwater Fish and Saltwater Fish for Home Aquariums to get some ideas.

 

[GreenMonster]

Oh really? That's kind of a bummer lol how come tangs need a longer tank to be in if you don't mind me asking? More swim room?

 

[carey]

Exactly. They literally zoom zoom all day long. I call mine twitcy cause he's always all over. With another tang racing with him. Some tangs can go into 75g tank, there are a few that don't have the need for so much room. If put into a too small tank they can become stressed extraordinarily easy and their health can decline.

 

[GreenMonster]

Well I would hate to do that, so I will look around and do some more research. As far as what type of filter I should go with what do you recommend other then lie rock and sand?

 

[GreenMonster]

I did a lot of research and since I'm not really interested in getting a refugium I believe that I'm going to end buying the Fluval FX5 filter. Read and have seen a lot of good things about it and having that on top of my live rock and sand should keep my water crystal crystal crystal clear lol the only question I have now is what do I use for putting the good beneficiary bacteria in to my tank? If I even need to?

 

[rdnelson99]

I did a lot of research and since I'm not really interested in getting a refugium I believe that I'm going to end buying the Fluval FX5 filter. Read and have seen a lot of good things about it and having that on top of my live rock and sand should keep my water crystal crystal crystal clear lol the only question I have now is what do I use for putting the good beneficiary bacteria in to my tank? If I even need to?

The Beneficial Bacteria (BB) will develop on its own during the cycle process. If you have not read it yet, this article will give you a very good description of how to cycle your tank. If you follow these guidelines you will have a beautiful tank.

Cycle your salt tank

 

[Fishguy2727]

The live rock will provide all the bacteria needed, and all the biomedia you will ever need.

Again, I suggest you go with a sump, there is a reason why they are so popular for saltwater. Unless this tank will definitely never become a reef tank and you are going to have high waste producing predators, I wouldn't recommend it.

If you go with I hope you prove to be one of the exceptions, it sucks to sink $200+ into filtration and to find out the hard way it was the wrong way to go.

 

[rdnelson99]

it sucks to sink $200+ into filtration and to find out the hard way it was the wrong way to go.

There you go talking about me behind my back again. If I had only know, I would have had my FW tank drilled and added a sump instead of the canister filter the LFS sold me. Now, I am stuck. How do you drill a tank full of fish???? You don't.

 

[Fishguy2727]

For FW I wouldn't. IME a large canister is better than a sump in FW, but in SW a sump is the way to go.

 

[GreenMonster]

As far as I'm concerned this 75g tank is never going to be a reef tank. At least not for a very log time anyways beings that it will be my first saltwater aquarium. The filter I'm looking at purchasing is rated for up to 400 gallons which should definitely do the job on top of the live rock. Te main reason I'm not looking to get a sump or refugium is because I simply do not have the room for it.. I feel that I would need at least a 40g refugium to do a good job f keeping up with the bio-load of my 75g. At least to make it worth it and make a difference. So for now, I will stick with the steroid enhanced super extreme Fluval fx5 canister filter and see what happens. If it turns into a downhill spiral, then lesson learned lol but there's only one way to find out! Thank you for the link and advice though, I will definitely check it out

 

[Fishguy2727]

IME unless you like fish that are absolutely not reef safe (triggers, groupers, etc.) you will end up going reef. You will fill up the tank with fish in a few months, get bored because you can't add anything else, and the frags at the LFS will be too tempting. You will start with mushrooms and zoos, they will do well because they always do unless you take them out and take a blow torch to them, and you will be addicted. From then you will make upgrades to favor your corals more and more and then you are stuck with a $200 useless filter because it isn't ideal for your setup.

A sump will fit in your stand. If you do it right and plan well a 30long will fit in the stand and hold a skimmer and a refugium. The refugium will do its job if it lowers the nitrate and phosphate concentrations at all. You know this is happening if the macroalgae is growing at all. It will take up no more room than the tank will take up anyway and will improve water quality.

The FX5 is a great, sometimes unbelievable, filter. But like any canister it was designed for freshwater use. It has a lot of mechanical media and room for A LOT of biomedia. The biomedia will be useless since you will have live rock and the mechanical need will depend on the tank. I had no mechanical media in my tank at all. I wanted to keep the debris moving until the filter feeders ate it. I did not want to trap in one place so it can rot just (releasing nutrients that will feed algae) and starve my filter feeders and require me to feed more (putting even more nutrients into the system).

I am not trying to talk you into anything. You will do what you are most comfortable with. I just want you to be as informed as possible before you make your decision so that you really understand what your tank needs and how to meet those needs.

 

[carey]

As someone who ran a successful saltwater reef with a fluval canister I also would have to agree that with your size of tank a sump is probably the way to go. just do some more research into it, you'll probably come to the same conclusion. I was scared to death to go with a sump on my 125g and also considered going FX5 as I have one on my 125g cichlid tank and I love it. But the pros for a sump actually outweigh the pros for the fx5.

If you do decide on the fluval just be sure to absolutely maintain it like its your child .LOL Cause if not properly maintained they will cause you nightmares.

I'm not talking a huge sump either, just one with 20-30g or so, enough to hide all your gear and have some room.

just another opinion, from someone who is a firm believer in the canister filter being good enough for a reef tank. Within reason.