Help!

[TheReefSweetheart]

Hey y'all...okay, so I'm having a little issue with my 10 gal. First I'll give some background. It's a 5-month old 10 gallon FOWLR, which I'd put two clowns, a coral banded shrimp, and a sand sifter star into, and everything was fine and dandy. My sister surprised me by putting in a flame angel while I was out (she doesn't know about overstocking but I realize that this is too small for an angel) I'm getting ready to upgrade tank sizes but won't be able to do so for a couple more weeks. I do water changes weekly, and I am using an ammonia/nitrate killer in my filtration system.
My problem is that I noticed that my flame angel has what looks like white dust all over her - my clowns do too but not nearly as bad. You can really see it in the more translucent parts of her fins. Is this ich? I've never dealt with it before so I have no idea. My angel will sometimes rest on the bottom of the tank, against her tail and faced upward. I just did a small water change (as much as I could as I haven't restocked on fresh and saltwater recently) but does anyone have any idea what this might be? Really appreciate it.

 

[chiclidlover81]

first step is to get rid of the fresh water gravel and get some arraganite fake plants and saltwater dont mix as far as the white spots what are your water parameters how often do you feed and the pic is to blurry to tell if it is in fact ich hope this helps good luck

 

[Bectan01]

It does indeed look like ich I am afraid. I take it the angel was not Quarantined before being introduced to the tank? I know you are aware your tank is not big enough, it may have ich because of that or it may have already had it. Do you have a QT? How far away is the upgrade? Only 2 ways to cure ich and best not done in the display, if your upgrade is close I would treat in tank them tear it down after treatment. Perfect time to get rid of your gravel and fake plants as mentioned above...

 

[Bectan01]

Sorry just read your post again, if you are only a few weeks away from the upgrade I would treat in tank, copper or hypo, but beware if you have inverts they will not survive. Do you have corals too? If you go down this route buy new sand and rock for your new tank, especially if you use copper. Don't transfer anything over to the new one. What size is the upgrade?

 

[baron1282]

Wow. Good luck buddy.

I wouldn't be mad at your sister, it was a very thoughtful gift. Unfortunately it is upsetting the balance of your tank. I agree with Bectan01, you going to have to treat in tank. your coral banded shrimp and star my not survive. I am sure they won't as copper is very dangerous to them. I have not had any luck with my fish when they got ICH, and I hope that is not your case.

The flame might have gotten ICK because of the stress of being in a new tank, and a small one on top of that. Your sister might not have allowed the fish to acclimate to the tank, being you said it was in your tank when you got home. How old is your sister? This is a very good teaching moment for her, get her involved in the hobby! Teach her about tank size requirements, and health of fish. Do it in a way that won't hurt her for putting the fish in without your knowledge. If it was a younger sister, or even same age. I think this could be a very good bonding time for you two.

Unfortunately this happened, but like I said it was a great thoughtful gift, and I hope you can get this worked out.

Another thought!! Before you treat your tank, ask your LFS if they could house your star and shrimp!!! Or get a small 2 gallon emergency tank and put them in there for the time being. It will cost you some money, to get a small filter and heater, but it might be worth doing to save your shrimp and star. A good 5 gallon starter kit might set you back 50 bucks, and you won't be able to cycle the tank, but if you do daily water changes and keep it running while your medicating the ten gallon tank, you should be able to save your shrimp and star!

Also I agree with bectan01, you need sand and live rock! When you set up the temp tank for your shrimp and star, get a small piece of live rock and a bag of live sand. That will help with the cycle! Just make sure you do daily water changes of about a gallon! because the tank is going to want to cycle!! I don't know how much the Shrimp and Star are worth to you, but I would think you would want to save them? If both your fish have white spots than get them on the copper immediately, but make sure you READ the directions and ask for help from your LFS. Good luck!! Please let us know how it went.

 

[baron1282]

Also, when you upgrade make sure it's at least a 29 gallon tank. A flame can be happy in that size. A coral beauty is about the same, and I have had one in for 2 months without any issue. He had plenty of swim space. However, you will be limited on what other fish you could put in, as they need a lot of swim space for themselves. I had only 3 smaller fish in with my guy.

I upgraded to a 55 now, and he is happy! Most sites now require a 70 gallon for the coral beauty and flame angle, but I find this is not the case at all. 30 gallons is the minimal that the fish can survive in happily.

Again, I hope you can save your fish, and I hope you can upgrade soon. What is going to suck is that your cycle for the new tank is going to be a fish in cycle. You kind of have no choice now, if your flame survives. Read up on fish in cycle, and buy a good bottle bacteria to help the cycle process. Also live rock won't hurt in your new tank!! I would buy a few pounds (It's $6.99 per pound mostly) of live rock, and than a few pounds of base rock. The base rock will become live within 6 months, so it's a cheaper way to go! Also I know a lot of people or torn on the issue of live sand, but my experience has been stellar with it! For a 29 gallon tank, I would get 40 pounds of live sand. Honestly, I would buy just one small bag of live sand, and get the 30 pounds of regular sand, put the regular sand in first, and the live on top. I would shoot for 3in of sand bed, or 2in at least. You don't want a very deep sand bed, but a nice sand bed will help with filtration.

Again, good luck!! I hope the flame and your other fish survive!

 

[TheReefSweetheart]

Thanks all - I found a 110 gallon that I'm hoping to buy in the next couple weeks and start cycling it. My flame angel looks so much better today - I thought she would pass last night for sure, I sat with her lying on the bottom of the tank practically gasping for air. Then all of a sudden, she jumped up and was happy and energetic as ever. She seems fine this morning. Can ich go away on it's own? I unfortunately have a borderline-pneumonia case of bronchitis so I'm pretty much bedridden at the moment and can't do too much to help her.

 

[chiclidlover81]

ich runs its life course witch has three stages first you will notice the white spots and then she will lay around kind of lethargic then the spots fall off of her and proceed to the next victim very hard to get rid of entirely hope she is ok and good luck

 

[baron1282]

Would turning up the heater be ok? That is another treatment for ICK. If you can get it up to 85 for a few weeks that will help kill the ICK, but you got to be careful. It only kills the ICK when it is in it's free floating stage. So does the medical treatments. The medical treatments hardly does anything when the spots are on the fish.

Could have been sand from the tank he was in before you got the fish.. I would turn the temp up to around 85 slowly!! Leave it for a few weeks, make sure the surface is well agitated as higher temp means less oxygen in the water.
How to Get Rid of and Cure Ich or Ick from Your Aquarium - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

[Hondatek]

Turning up the heat is for freshwater ich . It does nothing for marine ich. They share the same name but are totally different. Hyposalinity or copper are the only two cures.

 

[baron1282]

Thanks all - I found a 110 gallon that I'm hoping to buy in the next couple weeks and start cycling it.

That would be awesome!! I want a 180 gallon tank, or bigger. LoL

I will suggest with that size tank, be prepared for an expense with the live rock and sand you will need. This is not a bad thing as you can do an awesome looking FOWLR tank with just rock. A rule of thumb is the same amount of live rock for the size tank. That's a lot of rock, and I know when I bought 50 pounds of it it cost me around $250. So I hope that will not throw you off from that big of a tank!

HOWEVER!!! I did buy nothing but live rock, and I could have bought base rock, and mixed it in with live rock. This would be cheaper! Basically base rock is just rock that is not live, and used for decoration. Anything you put in your tank will become a home for beneficial bacteria. The live rock is just rock that has the bacteria already on it, and comes fully cycled from you LFS.
So you can buy around 10 or 20 pounds of the live rock, and much more of the base rock and mix the live into the base rock.

Another way of doing this is buying rock that is not cured. This just means it's live rock that has not been sitting in a tank for a long time. This will actually cycle your tank, as the rock will have a lot of die off causing the ammonia source in your new tank. The important thing when doing this, is to make sure you got big enough power heads to keep the water moving in your tank, and your filters going as if you had fish in the tank.

This is what I am talking with uncured live rock.
Live Rock and Live Sand: Live Saltwater Aquarium Rock and Sand

Live cured rock is already at most LFS, and they sale it for a lot more, because you don't have to cure it. You can technically put it right into your tank ready to go.

Base Rock means nothing is one it, no bacteria or anything! A lot of people buy this rock and seed it with the uncured or cured live rock.
http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=3&Itemid=58

Than you got live sand, now I had done nothing but live sand in my first tank. I had no water issues after the cycle. In my 55 I bought new sand (Only 30 pounds), but used my old live sand on top. I used 50 pounds of the live sand. Live sand runs about $37 dollars a bag that has 20 pounds of live sand, and I think it was worth it. Again, you can get the cheaper sand for around $20 and that has 30 pounds in it. For a larger tank, I would mix it up, and buy the cheap sand, and only a few bags of live sand to pour on top. Makes it cheaper, plus the other sand will become live in a few months anyway. I have a nice 3 to 4in sand bed in my 55 and I would recommend that to you.

I would learn as much as you can on this site, while planing your tank. Welcome to the boards and I hope your flame is doing well!! Good luck and have fun!!!

 

[baron1282]

Turning up the heat is for freshwater ich . It does nothing for marine ich. They share the same name but are totally different. Hyposalinity or copper are the only two cures.

Thanks Hondatek, that's why I asked if that would help. I only dealt with freshwater ick and I did not have luck with it.

 

[chiclidlover81]

you could do a freshwater dip but you have to check to see if that species supports it leave him or her in for around five minutes when they look like they are taking a turn for the worse then take him out and return him to his or her home it is very risky and dramatic but it works i did it with my fox face hope this helps good luck

 

[TheTodd]

I agree with the idea of turning this tank into a QT. empty out the rocks and plants and buy a piece, or two, of big PVC for hiding. See if your LFS will take the star and shrimp as they will not survive the copper or Hyposalinity.

Make sure this is all cleared up before putting anything in the new tank. You don't want to start the new tank off with problems. Use this tank for QT moving forward and you should not have problems with Ich moving forward.

 

[TheReefSweetheart]

Update : flame angel didn't make it :/ Looked like a cataract.

 

[baron1282]

:-( Sorry for your loss.