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Old 02-07-2006, 12:36 AM   #1
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Help!!!! 3rd lion dieing....

i have a 30 gal tank with 30lbs of live rock. It has been cycling for months now. i have 4 chromis, a scooter blenny, a cleaner shrimp and a red volitan lion. i've had two dwarf lions in there before and they never lasted more than 2 weeks. the first died in about 3 days and the other in about a week and a half. neither of which would eat. my new one was eating EVERYTHING at the pet store. i brought him home and he ate 2 chromis and a silverside. i tried to feed him yesturday and he didn't want to eat. i left him alone and today i tried feeding him but he wasn't acting the same. still not eating and was swimming upside down and keeps going up to the top to try to get air i guess?? i the last two did the same thing. now he has like a film all over him and is not looking good at all. i did a 10 gallon water change because i put some iodine and calcium in the water a while back and haven't changed it since i did that. i was thinking that maybe there was too much calcium or iodine? any help would be awesome. thanks-
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Old 02-07-2006, 12:42 AM   #2
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If it were the iodine, I think the other fish would be having problems too. Then again, lions are a bit more sensitive to things than most. A 30 gallon tank is far too small for these lions to begin with. What are the water parameters? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and SG. If you can give the results of the calcium too that would be helpful. Numbers please.

I would suggest you set up a QT for any new fish you get. If they are harboring any diseases or parasites, it'll show up in there instead of the main tank. New fish should remain in the QT for at least two weeks. Though in this situation, it sounds like a water issue. Do not go by the condition of the other fish for this. Testing is the only way to find out.
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Old 02-07-2006, 12:47 AM   #3
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dont dose the iodine unless you know what your doing with it period,its very toxic what kind do you have and do you remember how much you used? could be the problem,do you have a amonia and nitrate test? if you dont change somemore water and get a nitrate test in the morning ,it could also be the way you acclimated your fish read this
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...q=2&fldAuto=18
i had a lion die from a bacterial infection and as he got worse he started the sliming thing(stress inticator) and died soon after homfully you can avoid this.
by the way that type of lion gets very big mine way about 10-12" and was a little cramped in a 130g let alone a 30 and cromis and cleaner shrimp are not good tank mates just dinner.
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Old 02-07-2006, 12:53 AM   #4
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A 30 gal tank is just to small for a Volitan, they stress in small tanks, look for Ich. Volitans do shed a Mucus if they have a parasite, this is one way they can try to get it off their body. A 30g is just to small for this fish because they are very fast growers, they can get 10 - 12 inches in the first year.

What are you tank Para?
How are you acclimating?
What kind of Dwarf Lions were they?

Lions are very messy fish and can cause problems with your water, it is hard to say on the dwarf but lions are not the best shippers. It also depends on their diets, if they have been fed Freshwater fish at your LFS or in holding.

A Volitan Upside down is not unusual because they can sleep upside down, my volitans are always upside down in my tank, they all come to the surface & gulp air or spit water, this is OK. It is the shedding of the mucus that has me concerned, look for Ich.........

I feed my lions when they are young daily but small chunks daily, try to avoid large chunks, as adults I feed every 2-3 days & I never feed FW fish. I have always had the LFS hold the lion for me because they do not ship well.

You may want to take back the Volitan & try a dwarf species again.


Kaye
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:47 PM   #5
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well I dont know the exact numbers for the water parameters because i use the test strips. the colors all match up and look good. the salinity is at 1.021. unfortunately he died last night or early this morning but like i said this is the 3rd one that died and before i try anything else or any more i want to make sure i take care of this. the lion was only about 4" and i was planning on putting him in my 55 gal when i get another tank for the fish that are in it. anyway i have a radiata on order and will be here this week but at this point i'm getting ready to give up on having a lion. as far as the iodine goes it was kent marine. same with the calcium. they were on sale at the LFS and i heard they were good for you live rock to grow. i followed the directions except the little vials that they give you are for a 50 gal tank, so i would only do half at a time. there were i think 6 or 7 vials in the little pack that it came in. if this could be the problem is there anyway to get rid of it or at least bring it down to a safe level? the dwarf lions that i had were the zebra dwarf lions. i was acclimating them using a modified drip method. i didnt have the proper set up for the drip method so i used a turkey baster and would pull out about 3 basters full and put 3 basters full in every 15-20 minutes.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:33 PM   #6
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You need a much better test kit. Strips are not reliable for marine. Get yourself a good marine/reef test kit.

A radiata lion is a species far too big for your tank. They get as big as the volitans.

Iodine is not neccessary for live rock growth...though calcium and alkalinity are. All of these need to be monitored closely, but Iodine is very easy to overdose. I only use iodine if there are coral present that absolutely need it like xenia.

If you really want to make sure these things are taken care of, then you need to discipline yourself a bit more. It's easy for impulses to get you to grab whatever, but the importance of making sure water quality is safe and picking species that are size appropriate as adults for the tank you have make the difference between a fish that dies and one that lives happy and healthy.

You're obviously persistant with having a lion. Get a better test kit and stick to species of lion that will fit in that tank when it is an adult. Dwarfs and Fu Man Chu lions are the only two I know that can fit in the tank you have. Though that will limit what more you can have. They will need most of that space for their territory. Shrimps are snacks and fish introduce after the lion that are small enough for it to fit in it's mouth will be eaten.

Drip lines are a breeze to make. Just use an airline hose long enough to reach between the tank and the acclimation container and tie a loose knot at the end to control the drips. You may need to tie a rock to the end that goes in the tank to weigh it down.
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Old 02-07-2006, 11:29 PM   #7
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The Radiata gets 9-10 inches 7 should be in a minimal 75 gallons, it is a very poor shipper, sensitive to water quality & hard to get on frozen foods.

This is not a lion I would recommend for your tank, here are 2 really good info sheets on lions.

This one is by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner: This one is excellent
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i2...lionfishes.htm

This one is by Frank Marini:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Please read both of these sheets, I find them very helpful & reflect back on both of them often. I keep 7 lions & have only lost one to jumping, the fuzzy dwarfs are know jumpers, I forgot my glass top one night & my beautiful Red dwarf was dead in the morning.

Hope this Helps
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Old 02-08-2006, 07:43 PM   #8
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i agree with you on getting a dwarf or a fu manchu. i was trying to get a fu manchu for about 3 months and no one can see to get them. they are on the list to order but for some reason the divers just aren't catching them. at least thats what i was told. i didn't realize that the radiata and the volitan grew so fast. i knew they got big, but i was told that a 55 was plenty big for them. which was obviously wrong after reading the articles.(thanks for them) i know that any lion fish that i'm going to get is going to eat what i have in the tank already which is okay because i was using the chromis to more or less to help cycle the tank and to just add some life into it while i was waiting for my lion. should i even have any tank mates in with a dwarf or if by some stroke of good luck find a fu manchu? any suggestions? also is there any way to get the iodine out of my tank with out messing up the cycle? thanks a lot for all the help!
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:48 PM   #9
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just keep doing water changes on a frequent basis... The fish you have now seem to be healthy still, as long as they are eating and look well and active. it seems as if your tank has already cycled, if done properly at first. remember all the beneficial bacteria in your tank comes from the rocks, sand, glass, and pretty much anything it can settle itself on, but not the water by any means... just keep up in you PWC and keep us updated.. Good luck!!
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:39 AM   #10
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Also, your tank might not be biological ready for bigger fish. You said it has been cycling with chromis for a few months,,, I have a 35 that I started out with a few chromis. it took a while to get cycled. About 3 months actually...

Maybe I was doing something else wrong in my tank, but I know that, as far as "BIO-LOAD" is concerned. I think that is a pretty big step.

Just My Opinion.
I would wait till the 55gal has been running for about a year before trying another lion.


Wade
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