Help with starting my first FOWLR setup...

[Justin_Toronto]

Hi Folks,

I'm a long time aquarium hobbyist, however always freshwater.. (planted aquariums and such). I just sold the last of my fish last night, and the 90 gallon aquarium is coming down to be remounted on a beautiful new stand I purchased.

I've been doing some research, and I'm considering a FOWLR setup this time.

I would like to have the live rock as a wall along the back of the aquarium... my question is, what is the safest way to glue live rock together to form the rock-wall? In a freshwater setup I used clear aquarium silicone, however I don't think this would hold up on the porous live rock.

Secondly, how many LB live rock would I need to create the rock-wall? (I'm trying to figure out how much money I should be allocating.)

Lastly, are there any types of plants I could put with the live-rock other than coral?

Thanks,
Justin

 

[fijiwigi]

Sounds like fun the initial start up stage is so much fun. Fowlr is a good way to get started it doesn't require the special lighting that a reef does. My suggestion would be to cylce your tank with the live rock. The stuff on the rock that dies during shipping is a great way to jump start the cycle. Or if you get enough cured live rock locally you can even barely see a cycle. 1.5-2 pounds per gallon is suggessted so a 90gallon about 140pounds definately not cheap so shop around I bought from 2 companies online. I bought some carribbean from Welcome to International Marine Fish - Premium Live Rock and some fijirock from LiveAquaria they had the best rock and wasn't really that much more money. Even with shipping it was much cheaper than locally. You can even buy cheaper base rock to mix with the live rock to save money

My rocks are not glued together I just stacked them on top of each other and they are not going anywhere. The pieces I ended up with fit together nicely Live aquaria sent some big pieces with lots of coraline algae and the carribbean rock I got had more shelf like pieces.

There are some Macro algae that look like plants to go in the main display but if you want the look of plants you should really do a reef


Just to add some key tips I learned are buy a refractometer for testing specific gravity there about $45 but well worth it. And buy a RO/DI unit for making pure water don't use tap water. RO/DI units are about $150-$200 it should be the first purchase otherwise you end up buying distilled water and transporting it home.

Starting a testing log to record results and write down happenings will be usefull when trying to diagnose any problems you may have.

 

[ccCapt]

Welcome to AA!

I don't recommend glueing the rock together. If you wanted to be sure the rock won't move, you can drill holes thru it and use fiberglass rods to hold them together.

Depending on the density of the rock is, 1-2 lbs/gal will handle your filtration needs.

As far as plants, there are some types of macro algae that can be used, but most keep macro algae in their sumps for nutrient export. BTW...corals are animals, not plants.

 

[fijiwigi]

BTW...corals are animals, not plants.

Yes but they do look like plants

 

[roka64]

All great advice so far. I would like to add, you will want some caves/overhangs and places for your critters to hids and sleep. I wouldn't suggest just having all the rock on the back wall, you will need to access it to clean the glass.

 

[Justin_Toronto]

Thanks for all the advice. I found a gentleman locally who's taking down his 180g setup, with live rock. He's selling the rock for $3 per LB, which I think is a fairly decent price. (considering if I buy online, shipping and customs will probably ding me, since I'm in Canada.) I won't be buying any rock until I have the aquarium set up and I have all the equipment ready to go. (including a RO converter, and refractometer.

What is the rule for fish / water ratio? I know for Freshwater the general rule of thumb was 1" of fish for every 1 gallon of water available.

 

[melosu58]

I do keep mine on the back glass. It help force the fish to swim out front where you could see them but it`s really a preference of what you want. I`ve seen tanks all different ways. As I said my way makes them swim out front.

 

[Ziggy953]

Look at other peoples tanks and see how they have them set up. It will give you a good idea of how things can fit together. From that you can build your structure. It is mostly going to depend on the rock you get. Like Fiji said the rock will fit together like a puzzle you just have to play with it a little to get it to look the way you want. It helps to have someone assist you while placing your rock.

Also check out the article section on the site about cycling your tank. I know you aren't new to the hobby but there is some great info there that will point you in the right direction.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

What is the rule for fish / water ratio? I know for Freshwater the general rule of thumb was 1" of fish for every 1 gallon of water available.

While there's a lot of assumptions that go into rules of thumb, a good starting point (in my opinion) is to start thinking about a stocking list that is somewhere between 3 gallons/inch and 5 gallons/inch of full grown fish.

With that said, there are minimum tank sizes for all fish - some fish want to stretch their legs more than others and just can't in a smaller tank. And not all 4" fish generate the same amount of waste, so that plays into things too.

Best bet is to come up with a list and post it here and the old sages (not me... I may be old, but not "sage-ish") to comment on.

Regarding building the rock wall, I like the "aquarium epoxy and keystone" method of keeping things together. Basically, build your structure, and then find some key places that you can push in some epoxy to "lock" the rocks together so they can't move. It takes some planning and time, but it's totally doable if you have more than just slabs of rock. If you ever need to dismantle the wall, you just need to find those key places and pry out the locking pieces.

The dowel concept is a great one too... wish I'd seen that one before I set up my tank!

 

[Justin_Toronto]

Thanks! Good info.

So I picked up my new aquarium stand yesterday, and it's all assembled. (unfortunately I don't have the space to build a custom stand.) I picked up a Reverse Osmosis setup. 75 gallons per 24 hours. Cost $200.

Tonight I'll pick up the coral sand. I found someone locally who's tearing down his 180g live rock setup, and he's selling his live rock for $2.50/LB... but I don't know what the pieces look like. Most of them I've seen at the aquarium store just look like lumps of rock, but I've seen some nice overhangs and interesting looking pieces on the internet.. hopefully this guy has some of the latter.

I currently have my 2 canister filters, from my freshwater setup I would like to continue using. Do I *need* a Sump setup? What are the pro's and con's?

 

[Justin_Toronto]

While there's a lot of assumptions that go into rules of thumb, a good starting point (in my opinion) is to start thinking about a stocking list that is somewhere between 3 gallons/inch and 5 gallons/inch of full grown fish.

With that said, there are minimum tank sizes for all fish - some fish want to stretch their legs more than others and just can't in a smaller tank. And not all 4" fish generate the same amount of waste, so that plays into things too.

Best bet is to come up with a list and post it here and the old sages (not me... I may be old, but not "sage-ish") to comment on.

I was thinking of keeping it fairly simple. Stick with some Tangs, Clowns, and maybe some little critters to add some more activity (crabs or shrimp or starfish, and the like.) At this point I'm open to all suggestions though. I plan on adding fish at a rate of 1-2 per 2 weeks, I think I'll stick with a maximum of 10 little guys with plenty of room to hide. My primary goal is low maintenance, I know there are lots of really interesting salt water species out there, but some are finnicy, or require special care---which I'd like to avoid.

 

[Ziggy953]

With a 90g tank you are going to be limited with the kind of tang that will do well in your tank. I would stick with a yellow tang and maybe one other tang that doesn't get large. Tangs really like long tanks so they can, as Kurt put it, "stretch their legs". I would also suggest adding 1 fish per 3-4 weeks, this will allow your tank to mature and your bacteria colonies to catch up to the additional bio load.

You are going to find that low maintenance is a myth. SW tanks require daily attention, many of the tasks are simply and are done quickly but you will be "working" with your tank daily. The first year is critical and you will want to make sure to test you water often and keep up with PWCs. I recommend bi-weekly PWCs of at least 20%. By doing this you will avoid a lot of issues and keep your water balanced.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...I would also suggest adding 1 fish per 3-4 weeks, this will allow your tank to mature and your bacteria colonies to catch up to the additional bio load.

Ziggy beat me to it. In my opinion, adding more than 1 fish per month in the beginning will cause you to play catch constantly with your water quality.

 

[Justin_Toronto]

Understood... once a month is fine by me, better for my wallet.

After reading your advice and some articles on here, this is a preliminary roster of the marine friends I'd like to keep:

1x Yelloweye/Kole Tang (smaller species, and still very beautiful it seems.)
2x Basslet
1x Blenny
2x Clowns
2x Damsels
1x Dartfish
1x Dragonet
1x Lionfish
+ snails & hermits

 

[Ziggy953]

I would avoid the damsels, and what dragonet are you referring to? Madarin? If that is what you are talking about I would suggest avoiding it for at least a year and look into adding a refugium 6-8 months before adding that fish. They feed almost entirely on life copepods. You need a well established system to support them.

The lionfish will eat anything and everything it can get in it's mouth. It is not a community fish at all.

 

[Justin_Toronto]

Thanks Ziggy.. I'll rework my list.

What size SUMP should I have for my 90g? Is there a Sump 101 article on here somewhere? I couldn't find one... (only how to build one), but I'd like to know how it works, what I need to add in it, how to hook it up, etc...

 

[fijiwigi]

Thanks Ziggy.. I'll rework my list.
What size SUMP should I have for my 90g? Is there a Sump 101 article on here somewhere? I couldn't find one... (only how to build one), but I'd like to know how it works, what I need to add in it, how to hook it up, etc...

You want the biggest sump you can possibly fit the more water volume the better they say it should be at least 20% of the main tanks volume to truly be effective as a refugium if you choose to have a refugium section in your sump. Check out melevsreef it has some good info for the DIY project Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums I had someone else build mine because it was such a tight squeeze under a 46g bow cabinet. How it works really is you have and overflow box that siphons water over the top of the tank into a box and gravity feeds it into the sump. The water goes threw baffles. The baffles create different section mine has a skimmer/refugium/return pump section. The last section has the MAG7 return pump that has 3/4" vinyl tubing attached pushing the water back into the display at the end of the tubing is some locline plumbing to direct flow. The return pump section is where evaporation takes place so the bigger it is the longer you can go without having to top it off with RO/DI water. Mine I have to top off every 3-5 days so my pump doesn't run dry and burn up. Usually a gallon of water a day in my setup evaporates.

You can drill some bulkhead fittings in your tank and not have an overflow box but its not my cup of tea and someone else will have to chime in on that.

 

[melosu58]

Do I *need* a Sump setup? What are the pro's and con's?

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sumps, Part I by Greg Taylor - Reefkeeping.com

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/21/1/Refugiumsfuges-or-refuge/Page1.html

 

[Justin_Toronto]

Thanks both of you.. I'll read that article now. In the meanwhile:

What do you think of this "out of the box" SUMP? Includes protein skimmer, overflow box, auto-refill side tank (replenishes 4 gallons if evaporated water), and all the tubing, airstone, filter media, etc. The "Tom Pro SP4", says it does 1000gph.
Here are some details/pics of it.
Tom Aquarium Products Rapids Pro PS4 Aquarium Filtration System

I'm kind of worried this won't fit in my aquarium stand though. The dimensions are a bit confusing for a new FOWLR person like myself... seems as though there are 3 large parts to it, I'll have to check when I get home how much room I have to work with.
The reason I'm considering this particular SUMP is someone locally is selling one (brand new in box), that they don't need for $225, along with it they're including a few other things I'll require for my FOWLR setup such as live rock, sand, water test kit, etc.
Along with this sump, I'll be running my Eheim 2317 canister filter.
Should I bother with this unit, or instead make my own sump? If I make my own I'll have to purchase everything brand new to do it.

 

[Justin_Toronto]

I picked up that TOM wet/dry sump/filter/skimmer/auto-top off thing yesterday. Not sure if I like it though... grr.