Ich in a 300 gal with a shark

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KidKat8807

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Deerfield Beach
I've had my 300 gal running for a little over a year now, the inhabitants are a copperband butterfly, an emperror angel, a yellow tang, a hippo tang, dot dash butterfly, undulate triggerfish, ocealris clown fish, 5 assorted damsels, and most importantly a marbled bamboo cat shark. And now it would seem I've got ich:facepalm:! It all started with my hippo tang about a week ago, and it's still a pretty mild case(knock on wood) with only the hippo tang and the emperor angelfish being mostly affected. I'm pretty sure it's stress related as the triggerfish has been relentlessly hounding its tankmates. I've added more ornaments to offer more hiding places and treated with Mocrobe-lift artemiss(milafix essentially). After a few days I noticed the tang wasn't clearing up so I started a 5 day treatment with instant ocean life-guard( a new non-antibiotic agent supposedly effective against marine ich and oodinium). I'll be on day 5 tomorrow, hippo tang is still showing no improvement:banghead:, the emperor angel(has a few spots on him now too) :facepalm:is scratching on rocks, so is the dot dash butterfly(no ich visible on the surface), and the copperband butterfly is beginning to as well. Of all of them I've been watching my copperband most carefully because they usually are the most susceptible to disease and parasites, and he also happens to have had a large chunk taken out of his tail fin prior to all this happening; however, I have to mention that out of all the fish he is showing almost no symptoms on the surface, no spots or excess slime, just itching every once in a while. I'm hesitant to treat with copper because I've heard it's nearly fatal to sharks. However if all else fails on day 7 after a 25% water change I will proceed with "quick cure":(, it's never failed me with my freshwater tanks, and almost always gotten rid of the ich(has killed a few fish though, which is what worries me). All in all it appears the damsels(though two of them missing some chunks out of them) the clownfish, and the yellow tang appear unaffected still. And to add one more crucial detail, all my fish are pretty tiny still, the biggest fish in the tank happens to be my copperband butterfly at roughly 5", and my marbled cat shark is only about 6" or so.
I guess what I'm really looking for here is a confirmation that I'm on a right course of action. And any other suggestion would be immensely welcomed. This is my first personal saltwater tank, however, I've worked as a manager for a big chain pet store for many years, so I pretty much know the ropes. Oh, and yes, I plan to expand to a bigger tank, I have a 1200 gal being custom made for me, ready in March.
 
The copper will definitely kill the shark. It will also kill any inverts and the LR will absorb the copper and you'll have trouble keeping any inverts in the future(besides the trouble of keeping them with your livestock). Sounds like you're in pretty deep. I'd look into the hyposalinity treatment if you want to treat the whole tank. Otherwise a pretty large QT will need to be setup for all the fish. I believe ich has to be introduced, it wont just appear from stress. However, I would look into removing the fish that is causing the stress and nipping fins.
 
Take out the undulated trigger. Those are probably the most aggressive fish available in this hobby and will probably kill everything in your tank. I would also take out the damsels as well because they can get extremely territorial. I think it's all these aggressive fish causing the ich.
 
Id agree on removing the fin-nipper. Also, all those fish that are "flashing" (scratching against stuff) have ich...that's one of the first signs. Ich penetrates the gills first before you start to see any spots on the body. And cupramine and hyposalinity are the only proven treatments to KILL the parasite...all else will just suppress it until the fish is stressed again. Most all wild caught fish will come with ich, tangs and butterflyfish are just the most notable ones :(

Best of luck with the shark :) And I'd love to see that 1200g when it's done. I have a new goal now lol.
 
Given your situation, I would advise against copper and look into hyposalinity. You could treat the whole tank, because if one has it they're all going to have it. It also gives your shark and other sensitive fish a much better chance.
 
Thanks for all the opinions

Just wanted to thank everyone for replying to my thread. I did start the quick cure today after a 25% water change as the last resort because the yellow tang started showing what seems like pop-eye. I'll continue that for the next 2-3 days depending on signs of improvement. I'll definitely give hyposalinity a try if this fails, I just felt aggressive intervention was necessary at this point. And as far as getting rid of the trigger, I know its just common sense, but he is sort of my favorite(and the only fish not affected, go figure), so I really don't think that's an option. I just hope adding more ornaments and getting a much bigger tank will allow this guy to chill out. On the bright side though, the shark seems to be doing fairly well through all this. He was my newest addition(second to the emperor angel who in retrospect may have been responsible for the outbreak although he was properly quarantined and all) about two weeks ago and I was worried about him the most, but he seems ok. He has an enormous appetite, eating squid like it's going out of style; just picked up his first piece on his own today(I normally hand feed him because that's how he was fed at the store and he wasn't showing much interest in food otherwise, until I switched from freeze dried krill to fresh squid).
 
I don't understand keeping the trigger. Its a good thing he's your favorite because he's probably going to stress everyone in the tank to death. He's obviously the reason behind the outbreak, bite marks in fins and such. If you don't remove him you'll either have to do this all over or you'll start losing fish to ich or as a direct result of him.

I also think with the copper treatment your shark will die, keep a close eye on him.

Best of luck to you moving forward.
 
slitherbomb said:
The shark WILL die with copper.

Yup, and the problem with copper is even if you remove the shark during the treatment, the copper is absorbed by the LR and will slowly be released back into the system. If and when the shark does die, don't replace it with another. You'll likely have "mysterious deaths". Hence the urgency with which I suggested the hypo treatment. I really feel you're setting yourself up for trouble.
 
Shark

I've promptly removed the shark and set up my old 55 gal until my new tank is built at which point I guess I'll have to get rid of all my old decor... Boy, all this over a birthday present for my boyfriend, he always wanted a shark he told me...they're a pain in the neck I told him, no he had to have him...
Thank you all so much for the input though, it's all highly appreciated.
 
The trigger seems like more of the problem than the shark lol. So do you have all fake decorations and such or are you using live rock? Not sure how the copper works with fake decor. You might be able to wash it in vinegar and reuse it, not sure. Any live rock will be useless if you want to keep the shark or any inverts in the future.
 
No live rock for me just in case something like this happened. The tank itself is a little over a year so still fairly new, only had fish in it for 6 months give or take, but the trigger fish just won me over with his personality for some odd reason, I know I'm nuts to keep him. Oh and the last few comments had me so worried about the shark that I called up quick cure manufacturers to make sure the shark won't be affected from being in the tank for a few hours since I treated it around 4pm today, and they assured me it's safe for sharks, either way he's in a different tank now, poor guy. He is trouble though because of the level of care and little room for error he requires, which was all explained by me to the person who wanted him so bad, alas I was obligated to get him.
 
If its a copper based medication its not safe for sharks, you did the right thing getting him out of there. You MIGHT be ok with the fake decor and copper, can't imagine it'd absorb it. What do you have for filtration on the tank?
 
I have a fluval FX5 canister right now, it is suited for up to 400 gal. Plus I have two 100 gal Tetra air pumps running 24/7 to help oxygenate the water and help them breathe a little easier.
 
KidKat8807 said:
I have a fluval FX5 canister right now, it is suited for up to 400 gal. Plus I have two 100 gal Tetra air pumps running 24/7 to help oxygenate the water and help them breathe a little easier.

If you want a "cleaner" look you could remove the air pumps and just point one of your powerheads up towards the surface. Same effect as the air pumps, looks more natural to me, and best of all no salt creep lol. Its your tank, just a suggestion.

I've never had to treat ich, but I believe I read somewhere when treating with copper you should remove any carbon filters? I could be wrong.

Also, just remembered members on this site saying the copper will kill your bacteria and cause another cycle. You might be in trouble here as hooking up a hob filter to seed the QT won't work. Just keep checking your water and do water changes when needed.
 
I have plenty of bacteria ready for when I do the water change after the 3 day treatment course. I use Microbe-lift Thera-P(magical product really, ads bacteria, cycles the tank, AND stimulates the immune system & promotes growth, no idea why people look at me funny when I ask for it, nobody knows about it I guess) and special blend by the same company which is essentially a cycle in a bottle. And yes I had to remove the carbon, using just mechanical filtration for the time being.
On a sadder note, the copperband passed away last night :-( , I almost expected him as a casualty though, they're so sensitive and frail in general it's hard to imagine what this was doing to him, poor guy.
 
Sorry to hear about your copperband. IMO the bacteria in a bottle is just a sales pitch as I don't see how bacteria could survive in an airtight container with no ammonia to consume for months sitting on the shelf. At this point though you don't have many options.
 
Their claim is that the bacteria cultures are grown inside the bottles, and it does smell like sewage when you open it so it can't be nothing. Besides it's done wonders for my tanks in the past.
 
KidKat8807 said:
Their claim is that the bacteria cultures are grown inside the bottles, and it does smell like sewage when you open it so it can't be nothing. Besides it's done wonders for my tanks in the past.

Ehh, to each his, or her, own. I hope it does work for you. It'd be a shame to lose anything else.
 
Probably going to lose the angelfish by the looks of him too, **** shame I got him for a steal. I guess I'm going to have to restock. May be make my 1200 gal an aggressive only tank, keep the 300 gal with what survives.
 
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