instead of using a protein skimmer, can i just use jelly fish from the river?

[slitherbomb]

That's what water changes are for....

 

[Sergie]

The good thing about a skimmer is it removes the organics BEFORE they break down into ammonia-nitrite- and then NITRATE...Nitrate, the thing that's taken out in the refugium through algae.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Which is what I said the whole time, if the tank is small enough or you do enough water changes you can get away without a skimmer.

Again, let us know if in a few years your water changes were enough to prevent any issues. Until then, I don't think your few months without a skimmer proves anything beyond a tank can go a few months without a skimmer.

 

[Sergie]

You can keep a tank without ANY filtration if your constantly doing water changes. The skimmer makes you have to do them less frequently. It's a great tool. Even better when paired with a refugium. But I don't think they're interchangeable. They complete different tasks.

 

[carey]

I have both a skimmer and a refugium and find it works for me. I also have a 125g reef tank so I feel in that situation a skimmer is a necessity. Just seeing what collects in the skimmer cup is enough proof for me that it is working and doing what its supposed to. The refugium has assisted me in keeping my trates at 0 or 5 so I also feel that is doing it's job. Mixed with weekly water changes I think I have the best of both worlds.

 

[slitherbomb]

The algae and plants that are put in a refugium and remove nitrates, phosphates, some heavy metals, toxins, and co2 from the water. For a beginner to the hobby, I think that will DEFINITELY suffice. My 40g will never see a protein skimmer since the coral I will be putting, greatly benefit from dissolved organics in the water. My 75g will probably see a hob protein skimmer since i do not have room for a refugium. I feel like this argument is the same as metal halides vs t5ho. Everyone has their opinions, and there are pros and cons to each.

 

[MikeYQM]

I have to say, 4 months is not very long to develop a such a strong opinion.

In my almost 4 months of reef keeping, the only definite opinion I've reached is that I don't know much.

Also 5-20 ppm nitrates isn't much to brag about in a reef tank.

 

[slitherbomb]

I have to say, 4 months is not very long to develop a such a strong opinion.

In my almost 4 months of reef keeping, the only definite opinion I've reached is that I don't know much.

Also 5-20 ppm nitrates isn't much to brag about in a reef tank.

My reef tank has 0. My fowlr had 5-20. Thanks.

 

[MikeYQM]

Well, it has acro. Regardless, hardly proof positive that a skimmer has no purpose.

 

[slitherbomb]

Never stated a skimmer has no purpose. I'm just saying it really isn't required and a refugium is a good enough for a beginner and for my purposes.

 

[ccCapt]

The algae and plants that are put in a refugium and remove nitrates, phosphates, some heavy metals, toxins, and co2 from the water. For a beginner to the hobby, I think that will DEFINITELY suffice. My 40g will never see a protein skimmer since the coral I will be putting, greatly benefit from dissolved organics in the water. My 75g will probably see a hob protein skimmer since i do not have room for a refugium. I feel like this argument is the same as metal halides vs t5ho. Everyone has their opinions, and there are pros and cons to each.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but in your vast 4 months of reef keeping experience, please tell us what corals greatly benefit by having dissolved organics in the water.
And what is your definition of dissolved organics?

 

[slitherbomb]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but in your vast 4 months of reef keeping experience, please tell us what corals greatly benefit by having dissolved organics in the water.
And what is your definition of dissolved organics?

I'm sorry, not dissolved organics, but free floating phtoplanktons that SPS feed on. They are taken by the protein skimmer. Also, most of the research I do, is from people with a lot more experience than me, using the Internet and my lfs. I do, however, like to really get my own experience from things. People have told me that using NSW is horrible, and my fish are going to die, this and that, yet everyone that I've talked to in real life that has used it, (that's a lot here in Miami beach since it'd be an insult not to use NSW) says that they've had nothing bad happen because of it.

Have you ever ran a system without a protein skimmer? Can you tell me how much better your system became when you turned on the protein skimmer?

 

[Fishguy2727]

My system ran much cleaner and the corals did much better with a skimmer. I had a refugium before but when I added the skimmer it made a huge difference in water quality. With the fuge and skimmer my tank ran with no detectable nitrate or phosphate, with only 10% weekly water changes.

I also was an expert in my first four months. I think for the first six months or so I used tap water to make saltwater and had 'no problems' and neither my fish nor corals had any issues (for the whole whopping six months). The algae also did VERY well. Fortunately I learned that if you want a truly balanced and complete system you need to do it right, every aspect.

In all your research and experience did you ever find out that SPS eat zooplankton, not phytoplankton?

It is much more than T5 vs halides. That is a much closer argument depending on the setup. Almost all corals do better with clean water. The few that would actually like it a little dirtier than pristine (and even then not by too much) are things like Xenia and even clams. With almost all the others cleaner is better.

Would you mind sharing some pics of your thriving tanks?

 

[ccCapt]

free floating phtoplanktons that SPS feed on

Oh boy. You have alot of learning to do. I'm not sure where you are getting your info from, but it's 100% wrong. They are carnivores and eat meat...as in zooplankton.
Stony CorlFeeding
"Very few stony corals consume any (most eat zero) phytoplankton. Most all outright reject it. How to put this in another way? Hardly any Scleractinian species eat any phyto."

As far as using NSW, I never heard it was bad to use, except if you are taking it from right at the beach where the water is far from clean. The foam you see on the shore is the same foam you see from a protein skimmer. If I was close to the ocean, I would go a mile out and take and use the water too.

I've had my reef tank setup for 22+ years and have been using a protein skimmer from day 1. Eveyone I know who has a successful SPS reef tank and has had it running for 10 yrs or more uses a protein skimmer. I'll never say you can't have a successful, long term reef tank without 1, but I personally don't know anyone who does....and I know quite of few people with reef tanks, including the author of that article on protein skimmers I showed you the link to in a different thread.

To the OP of this thread, sorry for getting off topic, but letting misinformation go unchecked helps no one.

 

[slitherbomb]

Zooplankton, phytoplankton, my bad. I'll keep using my methods, until I feel that a protein skimmer is needed. I still stand that a beginner does not need a protein skimmer, so whatever. Thanks.

 

[Fishguy2727]

To any beginners:

Honestly I think if anything a beginner is in more need of a skimmer. More advanced methods require more experience. Although it is less equipment, it can be more challenging to run a tank without a skimmer. There is simply less room for error. Compare the cost of a decent used skimmer on craigslist and the livestock you invest in and tell me the skimmer isn't worth it.

 

[slitherbomb]

What if there are no decent used skimmers? I know mine doesn't have any. I think that the tank needs to establish itself then after get a skimmer. Beginners will rely on a skimmer saying that they don't need to change the water because of that and develop poor husbandry.

 

[Fishguy2727]

I have never seen anyone do that. Anyone on here should know to monitor water quality and follow minimal water change schedules based on their water quality. Not using a skimmer won't help them.

If there aren't any decent used ones wait for one to be posted.

 

[ccCapt]

Zooplankton, phytoplankton, my bad. I'll keep using my methods, until I feel that a protein skimmer is needed. I still stand that a beginner does not need a protein skimmer, so whatever. Thanks.

So first it was dissolved organics, but you really meant phytoplankton, but then what your really, really meant was zooplankton.
You admitted you were a beginner..and with 4 months experience that's all you really are. I would suggest in future threads where you try to give advice, do some research first and get the facts straight, or at least state that's what your 4 months experience tells you. People post here looking for real answers, not bad advice based on little experience.

 

[slitherbomb]

No bad advise, it's what I've experienced so far, but I must admit, I find it cute you think if yourself as a professional... Lol