instead of using a protein skimmer, can i just use jelly fish from the river?
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slitherbomb
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No, I definitely wouldn't.
tarpon
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Yeah I don't think it would do the same job.
And filter feeders may require supplemental feeding.
And filter feeders may require supplemental feeding.
slitherbomb
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No, protein skimmer are definitely not a must. I don't use one on either of my tanks. You can get a HOB refugium with chaeto algae, and it will do a great job of decreasing nitrates/phosphates.
They are very benaficial. They take out dissolved organic matter before they can break down into ammonia. You remove the ammonia source, which prevents nitrites, thus preventing nitrates. Also increases oxygen and decreases phosphates helping prevent algae blooms. Most without one will say it's not necessary, but once you have one you'll say it definately helps.
slitherbomb
Aquarium Advice Addict
People who spend tons of money on one, usually defend it too 
a refugium in a fowlr tank is more beneficial since it does all that you said the protein skimmer does, except for removing dissolved organics, and also makes a sanctuary for copepods to breed and grow so your fish get a constant food supply and it's not as loud.
a refugium in a fowlr tank is more beneficial since it does all that you said the protein skimmer does, except for removing dissolved organics, and also makes a sanctuary for copepods to breed and grow so your fish get a constant food supply and it's not as loud.
Fishguy2727
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You can run a refugium AND a skimmer...
Protein skimmers remove a lot more than refugiums do, and actually remove it from the system. With a fuge all that stuff is still in the system so if the algae dies it is right back in the water. Yes, physically removing the macroalgae will actually remove it from the system, but this doesn't happen constantly like it does with a skimmer.
The point of this thread was to determine if filter feeders could replace a skimmer. No, they cannot.
It turned into whether skimmers are truly needed. No they are not. But they are very beneficial. Depending on how they tank is setup and stocked it is possible to get by without one, but those systems tend to rely much more on water changes and have less room for error. Out of all my clients and customers who ever had problems with a tank crashing, being unstable, or failing to thrive, they all had no or underpowered skimmers (or there was some massive problem unrelated to skimmer or fuge).
Unless your tank is under 30 gallons where a water change is more effective than a skimmer, I highly suggest using one. Any skimmer is better than no skimmer.
Protein skimmers remove a lot more than refugiums do, and actually remove it from the system. With a fuge all that stuff is still in the system so if the algae dies it is right back in the water. Yes, physically removing the macroalgae will actually remove it from the system, but this doesn't happen constantly like it does with a skimmer.
The point of this thread was to determine if filter feeders could replace a skimmer. No, they cannot.
It turned into whether skimmers are truly needed. No they are not. But they are very beneficial. Depending on how they tank is setup and stocked it is possible to get by without one, but those systems tend to rely much more on water changes and have less room for error. Out of all my clients and customers who ever had problems with a tank crashing, being unstable, or failing to thrive, they all had no or underpowered skimmers (or there was some massive problem unrelated to skimmer or fuge).
Unless your tank is under 30 gallons where a water change is more effective than a skimmer, I highly suggest using one. Any skimmer is better than no skimmer.
slitherbomb
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well he asked if one was necessary..... your story about your clients having stuff happen to their system, and most had no skimmers is also kinda weird. If they need to hire someone to help them with their systems, then I cannot think that they truly know what they are doing.
Fishguy2727
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AND customers. People who would come into the shop and buy things but didn't have service done by us.
Can you provide more information about your systems? Tank size? Stocking? Feeding? Filtration? Water change schedule? Nitrate concentration? Phosphate concentration? Have you ever used skimmers? What kind? Why not anymore?
There seem to be a whole lot of people buying equipment committed to the lie of needing protein skimmers.
I have seen tanks with and without skimmers, there is a difference. This doesn't mean that every tank needs one, setting it up a certain way and/or a little more maintenance can allow you to get by without one. But most tanks would benefit from using one.
Can you provide more information about your systems? Tank size? Stocking? Feeding? Filtration? Water change schedule? Nitrate concentration? Phosphate concentration? Have you ever used skimmers? What kind? Why not anymore?
There seem to be a whole lot of people buying equipment committed to the lie of needing protein skimmers.
I have seen tanks with and without skimmers, there is a difference. This doesn't mean that every tank needs one, setting it up a certain way and/or a little more maintenance can allow you to get by without one. But most tanks would benefit from using one.
Fishguy2727
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Not the OP, slitherbomb is claiming his tanks are running great and insisting protein skimmers can be replaced by a refugium (as if they are mutually exclusive). I am asking him for more info about his tanks.
slitherbomb
Aquarium Advice Addict
I have a 1 month old 40g breeder with a 20l refugium. Right now the only fish are a pair of clowns. It has about 10hermits and 1 decorator crab. The lights are 6x39w t5ho nova extreme pro fixture. Am, trite, trate, and phos are 0, but the tank is barely stocked so that is normal.
Then I have a 75g, with only a HOB filter. Changed about 25g of water 2 weeks ago. Fish are a small blue tang, yellow tang, kole tang, 1 chromis, a pair of maroon clowns, and a snowflake eel. Lights are pc and a t8 bulb. Am, trite is at 0. Trates are always between 5-20 and phos .25 or less.
The 40g is going to become most an SPS tank, so dissolved organics can be used to feed the corals, and I'm only going to get 2, maybe 3 more fish.
The 75g is at it's limit with fish, and the blue tang is going back to the store with it reaches 4-5 inches.
Then I have a 75g, with only a HOB filter. Changed about 25g of water 2 weeks ago. Fish are a small blue tang, yellow tang, kole tang, 1 chromis, a pair of maroon clowns, and a snowflake eel. Lights are pc and a t8 bulb. Am, trite is at 0. Trates are always between 5-20 and phos .25 or less.
The 40g is going to become most an SPS tank, so dissolved organics can be used to feed the corals, and I'm only going to get 2, maybe 3 more fish.
The 75g is at it's limit with fish, and the blue tang is going back to the store with it reaches 4-5 inches.
Fishguy2727
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How long has the 75 been setup? Any corals in it?
slitherbomb
Aquarium Advice Addict
The 75 was setup about 3-4 months ago. It has an acropora that I put in about a month ago. It was brown when I got it, but it starting to turn greenish. Btw both tanks are using NSW if it matters.
slitherbomb
Aquarium Advice Addict
Btw, I'm not saying that skimmers are horrible, I just hate when people say you NEED one. A refugium does a great job at what it has to, and is a lot cheaper than having to get a protein skimmer. Most systems can do without a skimmer, except those with maybe coral that release toxins or extremely overstocked systems.
And I forgot to mention, my 40g has a mushroom and 2 pieces of favia fragum coral in it.
And I forgot to mention, my 40g has a mushroom and 2 pieces of favia fragum coral in it.
Fishguy2727
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So the longest your tanks have been setup is 4 months and this proves that skimmers aren't needed? Let us know how it goes over the next few years if you still feel the same.
A refugium doesn't do what a skimmer does. A refugium removes nitrate and phosphate. A skimmer can help reduce these and MANY other things that buildup in the water.
A refugium doesn't do what a skimmer does. A refugium removes nitrate and phosphate. A skimmer can help reduce these and MANY other things that buildup in the water.
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