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Old 12-02-2006, 04:48 PM   #11
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just a thought

Hi,
I am very new to this saltwater fish keeping too, but I can tell you about things that can go wrong.
I wouldn't consider putting fish in a tank till its completely cycled that can take a while almost 8 weeks. If your on a tight budget maybe you should consider African Cichlids they are very nice fish with out all the problems due to saltwater.
saltwater fish tanks have tremendous bio loads its probably due to the salt, many animals require a lot of food to process that water in and out of their bodies. and food becomes waste as soon as it leaves the fish or isn't consumed, this triggers a bacteria bloom that can increase poison like chemicals in the water.
The things that fix the poison are detriminal to the tank appearance algae blooms and can cause more problems when they cycle or die.
Salt water is difficult in a 50 gal, animals compete for food sick or weak are tormented and killed by the stronger animals.
Yes you can keep adding fish but they will only die after a week or two due to the toxic substances in the water.
Doug
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Old 12-02-2006, 05:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
I wouldn't consider putting fish in a tank till its completely cycled
I agree, you can cycle with raw/unseasoned shrimp, from your local grocery store. If you cycle it this way, it should take 4-6 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
saltwater fish tanks have tremendous bio loads its probably due to the salt
Bio load depends on the amount of fish, their size and eating habits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
and food becomes waste as soon as it leaves the fish or isn't consumed, this triggers a bacteria bloom that can increase poison like chemicals in the water.
I agree, uncomsumed food and fish waste can cause ammonia, one it starts to decay. However, you can remove this via a clean up crew and/or consistant PWCs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
The things that fix the poison are detriminal to the tank appearance algae blooms and can cause more problems when they cycle or die.
I'm not sure I understand this statement. Algae blooms are cause by excess nutrience in the water/old bulbs/too long of a light cycle. I agree algae is a problem but can be wiped out if the correct changes are made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
Salt water is difficult in a 50 gal, animals compete for food sick or weak are tormented and killed by the stronger animals.
My first tank was a 55G. I was rather surprised on how easy it was, but shocked at the initial cost! LOL!
As for fish tormenting others, it is vital to choose your inhabitants to avoid this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
Yes you can keep adding fish but they will only die after a week or two due to the toxic substances in the water.
I agree, when adding fish, your tank will need to adjust to the new bioload. If too many are added at one time, it could cause the tank to crash.
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Old 12-02-2006, 09:04 PM   #13
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MORE STUFF,

HI,
I have worked in a clincal lab setting for sometime and there are many processes occur that are complex yet amazing.
In mamals we move the salt around our bodies thru osmotic pressure gradients in the kidneys and gradients in tissue versus whole blood. Sea animals have a very big problem they live in a solution that has almost the same osmotic levels as their blood to pump waste out of their body requires alot more energy to complete this is why Saltwater fish need alot more food to burn than say a fresh water animal . to maintain waste excretion thru their metabolic pathway.
Thats why some saltwater fish need to eat 4-5 times a day to be healthy where a freshwater fish can go longer.
This creates a greater waste load on the tank for a small animal
the more animals the more waste or they may starve if you don't feed .
Doug

here's example of energy needs od freshwater versus salt
4.2.1. Diffusion and Osmosis
Diffusion: Movement of molecules from a higher concentration to a lower.
Osmosis is diffusion through a semi-permeable membrane
4.2.2. Freshwater fish
Freshwater fish are hypertonic in comparison to their environment.
Water passes through the gills and ions diffuse into the water
They have to eliminate water constantly from their body
In freshwater fish with large lesions on epithelial layer or gills, fluid therapy is contra-indicated.
Most important task of the kidney is to eliminate excess water
Larger glomeruli
4.2.3. Saltwater fish
Fish in the marine environment are hypotonic and lose water at a high rate.
They have to drink seawater and excrete minerals
Even when fish rest, they have a high energy requirement due to the ATPase dependant processes.
Most important task of the kidney is to eliminate excess electrolytes (Mg, So4)
Some species have aglomerular kidneys



here's wher I borrowed that text from..
http://ocw.tufts.edu/Content/5/Lecturenotes/215706
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:29 AM   #14
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Re: MORE STUFF,

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
Thats why some saltwater fish need to eat 4-5 times a day to be healthy ...
Some... but not many.
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Old 12-03-2006, 07:00 AM   #15
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I tested my nitrate level today and to all your predictions..it read 110mg!! so im gonna do a 50%pwc and another in about 2-3days time. is that correct?Once the nitrate has gone down..only then ill put my clown n damsel back to the tank.Im sure my tank has finished its cycle cos ive got it for about 4months already. Main problem is because i seldom do a pwc cos 'i didnt find this forum before this' sad sad.

Nex question is..brown and greenish algae has covered the sand in my tank.How do i get rid of it or..how do i make the sand clean n white again???? top it up w new ones? or a cleaning crew would do the trick?
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:25 AM   #16
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It sounds like the cycle is complete, get those nitrAtes to less than 10 and you should be good to go.
The brown/green could be diatoms and show the beginning of a nicley cycled tank. Once you get your nitrAtes down, the cleaning crew can be added. I drip acclimate my inverts for at least 2 hours, since they are sensitive to water changes/conditions.
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:15 PM   #17
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Re: MORE STUFF,

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnzlab1
Thats why some saltwater fish need to eat 4-5 times a day to be healthy
I need to tell my fish this. Some of them have been with me for nine yrs and have only been eating every other day all that time. 8O
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roka64
I drip acclimate my inverts for at least 2 hours, since they are sensitive to water changes/conditions.
wat do u mean by drip acclimate?
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:39 PM   #19
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Here is a great article for drip acclimation. I find this gives me plenty of time to do other tank stuff while waiting. I use a piece of airline tubing and a valve instead of tying a knot in the tubing, to regulate flow. Fish can be dripped for about an hour or so, depending on your water vs. the water they cam in.
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