Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater Fish Only & FOWLR
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 01-15-2014, 05:37 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 47
Unhappy Nothing survives....

Hi Guys,

I did a search and did not find a definitive answer. I am at a loss right now and I hope someone can come up with something I am missing.

I have kept marine fish since December 2006, starting with a 55 tall and have never had serious problems until recently (I even successfully moved them from Lakewood to their new 125 gal home in Seven Hills & they were fine for 3.5 years after the move). I even had some of my original fish 6 years after I started in the hobby!

In October 2012, when hurricane Sandy hit, we lost power for 6 days. A generator kept the tank warm and some filtration/aeration, but that is about it. All but 1 fish survived that ordeal, but sadly soon after they all started dying. I assumed at that point it was due to the stress of the power outage. When the last one died, we decided that it was as good of a time as ever to do a full reset (our stand was falling apart and needed to be replaced, so that was the reason for starting over and we wanted to run fallow to rid a minor ick problem).

By March 2013, new set-up is up & running, original 125 gal. tank, original live rock re- cured, new sump up and running (eshopps sump w/ micron bags, skimmer, UV Sterilizer, heat, and carbon bag), ran fallow for 5 months to be sure to clear parasites, clean-up crew in place (turbos and hermits) and all numbers point to a cycled tank. I add 2 Maroons (with proper acclimation) which both die within a day. Test water, everything seems in order (PH 8.0, Ammonia ~0, Nitrite ~0, Nitrate ~5.0, temp 78.) 25% +water change, wait a week, retest, numbers come back similar so I try again with 2 more perc this time in a 20 gal. quarantine tank (filled with water from DT). They lived in quarantine for 2 weeks and then I tried again to introduce to DT (all parameters WNL). These both die within hours and the clean-up crew starts dying off. I took water to LFS, they confirm parameters WNL, and recommend adding Nutrafin cycle before adding new fish (possible mini-cycle?). So the same routine, 25%+ water change, add Nutrafin cycle, waited a week, retested, numbers were all good, so got 2 more Percs, quarantined at least 2 weeks, but upon introduction to DT: same thing, dead within hours! I also introduced a cleaner shrimp at that time which lived in DT for at least 7 months. I got a final pair of percs, they lived in quarantine for 5 months, but died within 2 hours of introduction to DT! (During these months, I let the DT run fallow with some turbos and a few blue-legged crabs, & that cleaner shrimp, performed water changes at least twice a month if not weekly, & monitored tank parameters.) It also appears currently that there is not much if anything living from the clean-up crew. I don’t understand since the QT was set up with water from the DT, so it has to be an immediate problem with livestock entering the DT. I have obtained fish from 3 different LFS, so it can’t be an issue with that. QT & DT are changed with water from the same place using the same methods, both have heaters that keep temp around 78, filters, protein skimmers, & lights on similar schedules. Parameters tested are temperature, salinity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH. If anything, the QT parameters tend to be worse/spike more due to small volume. The only differences between the tanks are that the DT has live-rock & live-sand & the QT does not. The live-rock is what was in the previous tank, but the sand was new when we set up the “new” DT. We went through the same process of curing and then cycling as we had the previous two times.

The DT parameters when I lost this final set of fish shortly after acclimation: 8.0 PH, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, under 5.0 Nitrate, Temp 78, skimmer and UV working properly.

Everything lives in the quarantine, nothing lives in the main tank....
Thanks in Advance,

Don
__________________

__________________
125 FOWLR (sans fish!) aka "Tank of Doom"
20 Saltwater QT: 1 perc, 1 bangai cardinal, 1 crab, 1 sandsifting goby, 1 sandsifter star, 1 cleaner shrimp.
90 Malawi Cichlid and 1 "Beta Blob"
DonCollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 07:23 AM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Bectan01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: melbourne, australia
Posts: 1,930
The only thing I can think of is something in the rock? How did you re-cure it after it came out of the original tank?
__________________

__________________
Bectan01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 07:32 AM   #3
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bectan01 View Post
The only thing I can think of is something in the rock? How did you re-cure it after it came out of the original tank?
The rock was in a clean (new) 32 gallon plastic container with heat and air for about a week. After that, it was reintroduced into the tank (no fish) and sat with full filtration for 3 months before we introduced even new cleaners. Several hermits and turbos made the jump from the old tank to the plastic container to the new tank, but no livestock was added from setup in December 2012 until March 2013.

One item I have been reading about here in the last hour is the depth of the substrate....we have about 1.5-2". Previously, we had about 3.5" (before the storm/reset)...is this enough?

Thanks Again,

Don
__________________
125 FOWLR (sans fish!) aka "Tank of Doom"
20 Saltwater QT: 1 perc, 1 bangai cardinal, 1 crab, 1 sandsifting goby, 1 sandsifter star, 1 cleaner shrimp.
90 Malawi Cichlid and 1 "Beta Blob"
DonCollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 01:05 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Bousin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 12
Don where abouts are you located? I live in Toms River which is why Lakewood jumped out at me. In addition I have read and been told that live sand will play a significant role in changing your levels reason being the sand already has its own mix if you will of nitrites/nitrates etc.. I had a close friend that battled with his tank for a while and finaly drew the conclusion it was the live sand. He switched back to a plain sand substrate and his levels stayed on target and his tank thrived. Just a thought.

DJ
__________________
Bousin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 03:32 PM   #5
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 47
I am in Ohio near Cleveland, DJ.

Some thought overnight.....changes from our "old" setup that lived and thrived for 5 years and the "new" setup include the previously mentioned shallower sand bed (measured this morning, average depth is about 1.25") and a hood/lighting change from Metal Halide to LED and from open top to a glass canopy (to control salt creep which affected two previous light fixtures.) For the sand, I read that Hydrogen Sulfide could build up in a shallow sand bed which could cause rapid death similar to what is happening with our tank. Also, I know a glass canopy can reduce oxygen exchange, but I have never had trouble in other tanks using a glass canopy including the 90 Cichlid and the QT we have running now. I (maybe wrongly) assumed that the air stone, 2 power heads, skimmer, and open top sump was enough to keep the oxygen supply high.

Don
__________________
125 FOWLR (sans fish!) aka "Tank of Doom"
20 Saltwater QT: 1 perc, 1 bangai cardinal, 1 crab, 1 sandsifting goby, 1 sandsifter star, 1 cleaner shrimp.
90 Malawi Cichlid and 1 "Beta Blob"
DonCollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 03:49 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kenner, louisiana
Posts: 593
I'd be curious if there was some type of electrical charge entering the tank.
__________________
somethingsfishy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 04:03 PM   #7
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingsfishy View Post
I'd be curious if there was some type of electrical charge entering the tank.
I thought about that, but wouldn't the GFCI and/or the surge protectors used for all the electronic equipment trip if this was the case? Also, I would assume I would be able to feel any current flowing through the tank when I reach in for something?

Everything currently in use that plugs in is under a year old except one power head which is still from the original 55 tall 6 years ago.

Is there a way to measure/test for electrical charge in the tank?

Don
__________________
125 FOWLR (sans fish!) aka "Tank of Doom"
20 Saltwater QT: 1 perc, 1 bangai cardinal, 1 crab, 1 sandsifting goby, 1 sandsifter star, 1 cleaner shrimp.
90 Malawi Cichlid and 1 "Beta Blob"
DonCollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 04:51 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
It has nothing to do with the sand. The less sand you have, the less chance of hydrogen sulfide. I have also never heard nor saw any Ill effects from using live sand as opposed to any other sand.
No, the GFCI may not trip with stray current in the tank. I would think the shrimp, snails, and hermits would die like the fish if it was electricity killing them.
Actually, if you had your shoes and socks off and put your hand in, you'd probably feel it.
As for oxygen exchange- the same as above....the snails and shrimp would not make it either, and it would show up on your PH kit.
Any pathogen should kill everything, not just the fish.
Do you have an air stone in your salt tank? If so, this is the source of your salt creep. I would remove this and remove the tops.
I have heard things about air bubbles in the fish's gills, but I don't know if there is any truth to it.
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 05:28 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_X View Post
It has nothing to do with the sand. The less sand you have, the less chance of hydrogen sulfide. I have also never heard nor saw any Ill effects from using live sand as opposed to any other sand.
No, the GFCI may not trip with stray current in the tank. I would think the shrimp, snails, and hermits would die like the fish if it was electricity killing them.
Actually, if you had your shoes and socks off and put your hand in, you'd probably feel it.
As for oxygen exchange- the same as above....the snails and shrimp would not make it either, and it would show up on your PH kit.
Any pathogen should kill everything, not just the fish.
Do you have an air stone in your salt tank? If so, this is the source of your salt creep. I would remove this and remove the tops.
I have heard things about air bubbles in the fish's gills, but I don't know if there is any truth to it.
Could Hydrogen Sulfide be a problem because of the LR or from the LR sitting on the sand creating a toxic environment?

Is it safe to say that since my PH is at 8.0 that there is not an oxygen exchange issue? Removing the tops means we can not stock any jumpers (if we ever figure out what is going on here.)

Of all the issues listed above (or others that may be thought of) is there anything that could kill livestock as quick as ours are dying. As I mentioned above, there are no crabs/snails/shrimp alive now in the tank. They did not die nearly as quick as the fish are dying, but it seems as if they have all died.

Thanks to all who have responded!

Don

Edit: Touched water with shoes/socks off and no sign of any electrical current were noted.
__________________
125 FOWLR (sans fish!) aka "Tank of Doom"
20 Saltwater QT: 1 perc, 1 bangai cardinal, 1 crab, 1 sandsifting goby, 1 sandsifter star, 1 cleaner shrimp.
90 Malawi Cichlid and 1 "Beta Blob"
DonCollins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 06:16 PM   #10
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
No. The rock on the sand is fine.
Yes, it's safe to say you have adequate oxygenation if you have a 8.0 reading.
There are many things that can kill livestock quickly, but you are lacking other symptoms.
It can't be something leaching out of the rock or sand, because I think the inverts would have died first.
Worst case scenario, take a sample of your water to a lab for testing. It might cost you a few bucks, but then you'll know exactly what's going on.
__________________

__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dead fish, quick death, toxic tank

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.