prob with nitrites and nitrates after 6 month old tank...

[AnnnetteM]

This is my first time here, but I have probs with NO2 and NO3. Here is my set-up and levels....
ph 8.2, cal 450, amm below.25 but not quite 0, nitrates 10, nitrites .2
set-up: trickle filter w/bio-balls, protein skimmer, UV ster, chiller, 2 powerheads besides return head, 110 gal tank, PC w/moonlights. I hace a mixed live sand sub4 in", 100 lbs LR. Use carbon constant and supp w/kent products, phosguard bags, nitrate sponge. I am stocked with 1 unicorn tang 6", pink anthias 5", 4 perculas, 1 blue damsel(I know but couldn't get out after cycling 6 months ago and all is ok so far), a mandarin, 2 cleaner shrimp, 5 peppermint, 2 sandsifting starfish, 5 horseshoe crabs, 50 turbos, 75 hermits, 1 star polyp, and some common polys came on LR. I have done 50 gal worth of wtaer change w/mix Red sea and r/o water. I always top off with r/o. What could be the prob? I already had a battle w/ich and need to get this stuff down. I am using TheraP to try to get levels down, but it's not working. Any sugg? I am also getting a lot of green on my rocks that is starting to take over. Need help, thanks

 

[Brisc0]

Do you vaccum your sandbed? If so how often? How often do you feed and what are you feeding? What are you dosing?

 

[AnnnetteM]

I tried to vacum, but it just makes a mess with the siphon hose with a small head. I stir the top layer every month with 20% water changes. I feed everyother day with a mixture of different frozen. Brine shrimp, prime reef, and a frozen blend. I change these off. I also feed the tang fresh seaweed ordered from a website. I froze it and thaw as needed. I change this off with the packaged dry seaweed. I am dosing with all kent. Coral-vite, coral accel, essential elements, tech 1, tech M, zooplex, phytoplex, b-ionic, liquid cal, and stronium and molybdenum. I test cal and alk first before dosing with that and the rest I follow as per directions. I use carbon constantly so I was told dosing was necessary.

 

[steve-s]

I am dosing with all kent. Coral-vite, coral accel, essential elements, tech 1, tech M, zooplex, phytoplex,

A majority of your issue will be with the coral/liquid foods. I am not really sure why you want to use them but in all honesty except for a quality phytoplankton once or twice a week, most are not needed and will foul the water.

b-ionic, liquid cal, and stronium and molybdenum. I test cal and alk first before dosing with that and the rest I follow as per directions. I use carbon constantly so I was told dosing was necessary.

Other than the B-ionic and possibley the Liquid Ca, the rest are not needed at all if doing at least monthly water changes. The amount the carbon will remove of the types of additives you have mentioned are negilgable. Unless you are actually testing for them, you are most likely headed for an algae bloom like you've never seen. The Tech- I is especially prone to causing cyano problems.

Cheers
Steve

 

[AnnnetteM]

thanks Steve, I am going to try this for awhile after I do a major water change and see what happens. So you think I should only use the phytoplex (is this good?) the b-ionic and liquid cal? That's it? Boy the LFS told me all the others would keep everything healthy and help the coralline algea on my rocks grow at a faster rate. Thanks.

 

[steve-s]

There is really nothing in the tank that could possibley pull down the minor trace elements you are adding. As I said, if you are doing at least monthly water changes they will be just fine. Just be sure you monitor alk and Ca before dosing. If balanced you will find the liquid Ca will rarely be needed. If anything, the alk will be pulled down faster and typically need augmenting.

As far as the phyto, I have used the Kent product and was not all that impressed. If available I would suggest either DT's live phyto or BioMarines LiquidLife. Both very good products. For the animals you have listed thouigh they will not directly benefit but your pod population should do well if used once or twice a week sparingly. With a dragonet in the tank that will be a plus.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Menagerie]

I don't keep SW, but I happened across your thread and just wanted to say:

[center:d2afd7ae4d] Welcome to AA, AnnnetteM!!! [/center:d2afd7ae4d]

 

[AnnnetteM]

thanks for all of the replies. I took some advice from steve and have not added any suppliments since I last posted a few days ago and already my nitrites have gone from .2 down to .1 and the nitrates from 10 to 5.0 so maybe this is working. I stopped using the carbon. I am only using the prefilter and changing it weekly and I have the UV ster so I'm thinking maybe the carbon isn't so necessary except maybe a couple of days a month. Yes or no? I figure then my trace elements can't be depleted as quickly thus no need for suppliments. One question though, it seems my mandarin is getting a pinched in belly in the last week and surfing the top for food. My LFS told me he may (he is BIG) eat all the pods, but that he will also eat brine. Well, I am feeding frozen brine into the rock area so he can hunt there, but it isn't helping. He won't go for it. Any suggestions? I have already restocked the pods 2 weeks ago with an order online and they were all alive. He must have ate all of them quick. I can't afford to spent $25 every 2 weeks to feed just him. Help anyone? I really love this fish! Thanks in advance.-Annette

 

[steve-s]

thanks for all of the replies. I took some advice from steve and have not added any suppliments since I last posted a few days ago and already my nitrites have gone from .2 down to .1 and the nitrates from 10 to 5.0 so maybe this is working. I stopped using the carbon. I am only using the prefilter and changing it weekly and I have the UV ster so I'm thinking maybe the carbon isn't so necessary except maybe a couple of days a month. Yes or no? I figure then my trace elements can't be depleted as quickly thus no need for suppliments.

Others may have a differing opinion but as I said, the carbon will not do what you think. A majority of the trace elements provided by the salt will not be removed by the carbon and can be left in. In all honesty, a skimmer removes more than the carbon would and that is still a very small amount. Good to hear the levels are improving though.

One question though, it seems my mandarin is getting a pinched in belly in the last week and surfing the top for food. My LFS told me he may (he is BIG) eat all the pods, but that he will also eat brine. Well, I am feeding frozen brine into the rock area so he can hunt there, but it isn't helping. He won't go for it. Any suggestions? I have already restocked the pods 2 weeks ago with an order online and they were all alive. He must have ate all of them quick. I can't afford to spent $25 every 2 weeks to feed just him. Help anyone? I really love this fish! Thanks in advance.-Annette

A 110 gal tank is fine for a mandarin but you have ½ the amount of rock needed to help sustain a proper pod population. Another 80-100 lbs would greatly improve the chances of providing for the dragonet. I would also suggest adding a >>refugium<< to the tank which will also improve the quantity of available pods.

The age of your set up will also come into play. It is generally best to wait about a year for the tank to properly establish once a sufficient amount of rock is added before getting this type of fish. Most if not all will only eat pods and rarely if ever accept frozen or prepared foods.

The only thing I can suggest in the interim, is placing the food directly in front of the mandarine (small hope) or returning it to the LFS until the tank is ready and can keep up with it's food demands naturally.

Cheers
Steve

 

[AnnnetteM]

ok, steve so I can keep the carbon in and my protein skimmer and if I change 25 gals a month out of the 110 I will be ok on the trace elements, yes?Second, how do I set up a refugium? I have the trickle filter with the bio-balls, and in my left over space next to it is my large skimmer with a pump for it taking up space and a pump for my UV ster in the same space so I have no room left under the tank cabinet in the sump or anywhere. Under m e tank is also a large chiller, so.....how do I set this up? I would like to keep the mandarin, but if not possible then he must go back I guess, but hubby would be upset being that he doesn't understand why I must return fish. This will be my second as I already returned a dejardin tang because he was bullying the entire tank after 3 months of him being in there. I got no credit or anything for him and they sold him for $80 after I returned him. I paid $65, but he was so healthy and pretty when I returned him they got more and I got nothing. It makes me so mad to have to do this. Makes me hate my LFS. Is there anything I can do for this poor fish? Live brine? You stated they might not eat frozen, but live? And if I just dump the pods in my sump they will get thrown through the UV ster, no good!

 

[steve-s]

ok, steve so I can keep the carbon in and my protein skimmer and if I change 25 gals a month out of the 110 I will be ok on the trace elements, yes?

Depends on the age of the tank moreso but given the nitrite levels at this point, I would suggest changing 10 gal/week for now which could be lessened later on. I am not a fan of large water changes unless in an emergency so I would honestly not go beyond 15 gal at a time. Believe me, the trace element additions are not as important as you've been lead to think. Most are sustained via foods and the saltmix. There is also ample amounts in the B-Ionic.

Second, how do I set up a refugium? I have the trickle filter with the bio-balls, and in my left over space next to it is my large skimmer with a pump for it taking up space and a pump for my UV ster in the same space so I have no room left under the tank cabinet in the sump or anywhere. Under m e tank is also a large chiller, so.....how do I set this up?

Check the link I provided above it will give you a decent amount of info and a google seach will give you literally 100's of DIY suggestions and detailed plans. The refugium does not have to go under the tank. It can be set up beside or above the main tank. The options are many.

I would like to keep the mandarin, but if not possible then he must go back I guess, but hubby would be upset being that he doesn't understand why I must return fish. This will be my second as I already returned a dejardin tang because he was bullying the entire tank after 3 months of him being in there. I got no credit or anything for him and they sold him for $80 after I returned him. I paid $65, but he was so healthy and pretty when I returned him they got more and I got nothing. It makes me so mad to have to do this. Makes me hate my LFS. Is there anything I can do for this poor fish? Live brine? You stated they might not eat frozen, but live? And if I just dump the pods in my sump they will get thrown through the UV ster, no good!

If you have gotten that kind of response from your LFS, I'd suggest finding a new one. Very shaddy business to take something for nothing. Even the bad ones will usually caught up 1/3 the asking price, especially when you bought it from them originally.

Try the direct feedings, seperately cure and add more LR and get the refugium set up. You may be able to hold off on returning the dragonet if things go smoothly. The addition of some cured rock alone should increase the pod population for a few weeks.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Reefaddict]

JMTC, but I have do agree with Steve. You should definitly try to find a different LFS. They seem very shaddy...they sold you all those dosing products that you absolutly did not need. That, to me, was a ridiculous amount of supplements, and they just did it to make more money off you, as if you didn't spend enough as it was. Especially since you have a FOWLR, not a full reef. Even if you had so many corals and clams in your tank that you couldn't even fit another one in there, you wouldn't have needed that many supplements. If I were you, I would be outraged at that LFS and boycott if forever!

 

[AnnnetteM]

I do want to have a lot of coral in the tank eventually, but I want to get things under control and perfect first. I must say the only other place that sells salt water fish and corals in my area close by is a pet store with dogs cats and all. And they always have this slimy maroon stuff growing on their corals. Scary! Once I get corals are they also going to affect the nitrites and nitrates?

 

[steve-s]

Once I get corals are they also going to affect the nitrites and nitrates?

If you mean will the corals cause these two, the answer is no. Corals add little to nothing for waste producing bioload.

If you mean will they be affected by the levels, most definately. Corals are not tolerant of any detectable nitrite or ammonia. They will endure a certain amount of nitrate but it should be kept as low as possible. Until you current issue with the nitrite is resolved, I would not add any corals as yet. Nitrates should be kept below 10 ppm for most soft corals and less than 5 ppm for stonies.

Cheers
Steve