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Old 04-09-2009, 04:27 PM   #11
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Most of those "bacteria in a bottle" products don't work in my expierence. Biology 101 could tell you that Bacteria can't survive in a bottle indefinitely with nothing to eat. Anything that ever was in there is probably dead by the time you purchase it.

Avoid the shortcuts, I say. What is 2 more weeks in the grand scheme of things...
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:35 PM   #12
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...This bacteria is great and you should view it as a tool for efficiency rather than a short cut for the impatient. By-passing lots of potential problems is "efficiency".....
What problems are bypassed by using bottled bacteria versus fishless cycling with either fish food, shrimp, etc...? Unless you consider waiting on your tank to cycle a "problem", I just can't see any.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:44 PM   #13
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What problems are bypassed by using bottled bacteria versus fishless cycling with either fish food, shrimp, etc...?
That is what I am curious about. Is the only difference time or are there other differences? I am trying to basically make a pro and con list to use in my decision making process.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:28 PM   #14
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Most of those "bacteria in a bottle" products don't work in my expierence. Biology 101 could tell you that Bacteria can't survive in a bottle indefinitely with nothing to eat. Anything that ever was in there is probably dead by the time you purchase it.

Avoid the shortcuts, I say. What is 2 more weeks in the grand scheme of things...
You're right about one thing, the "bacteria in a bottle" products typically don't work. SuperBac is an exception because it is autotrophs (nitrifiers), not heterotrophs slipped to you as nitrifiers. Before you can formulate an opinion about "bacteria in a bottle" products, first use the real thing. I understand you have a purist attitude and that's fine. But scooping salt from a bucket, importing fish, putting in bagged sand, dropping in factory produced pellets, and replicating sunlight with bulbs is far from "pure" so let's quit kidding ourselves.

After using this stuff for a good while, SuperBac is the superior way to establish biofiltration over the slow way for a few reasons:

1.) It's the same bacteria you are waiting a month to grow. This is an indisputable fact.
2.) You start out with the entire colony instead of 2 cells. How is starting with 2 cells better? It isn't.
3.) You know where your water quality stands immediately (my favorite part)......

See, since these are the same nitrifiers they have the same laws. To pretend like everyone has a flawless slow cycle is ludicrous. If your alkalinity is too low for nitrifiers to establish, waiting 4 weeks to find that out is a bummer, if you find that out at all. Planted aquariums sometimes get a low pH. You find out within days if it's too low for nitfirfication instead of 4 weeks. This is just scratching the surface. This product tells you much about your aquarium really soon.

Remember, the more time that passes the more time there is for problems to occur. Especially for new hobbyists.

This product is the greatest tool for cycling I have ever, ever seen.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:50 PM   #15
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You forgot IMO, IMO
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:32 PM   #16
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What problems are bypassed by using bottled bacteria versus fishless cycling with either fish food, shrimp, etc...? Unless you consider waiting on your tank to cycle a "problem", I just can't see any.
I hear you Kurt, if you dig doing it the long way that's totally cool. Everyone enjoys what they enjoy about the hobby. I will say that anyone that claims they have done a fishless cycle in a brand new aquarium is lying. It's impossible and here's why:

Nitrifiers have to come from somewhere. The stork doesn't bring them and they don't appear by immaculate inception. At least one bacteria cell must be imported from somewhere. It won't come in the tap water due to the chlorine and chloramines that kill them on contact. They don't come from the food because they cannot survive in a frozen nor dry environment.

The reason a fish cycle is more effective is because the fish are what bring the bacteria in. They poop it out or they have it attached to them. This is possible because they were already in a system where bacteria already were colonized and present. Otherwise, some kind of media with nitrifiers has to be introduced, and if you're going to do that you're doing the same thing as putting in the SuperBac that I use. I'm just putting a of a lot more of them in there.

So really, in the end you're doing the same exact thing but just much more efficiently and a whole lot faster.

But again, if you enjoy the cycling process it's totally cool. But me, it's just busy work going through lat long tireless process when I don't have to. I just don't have to. So why do it? And I must reiterate that having your colony instantly you know right away if your water chemistry is right for nitrification. And there are variables. If there is no phosphate? No nitrification. Low alkalinity? No nitrification. Low pH? No nitrification. Better to know these are an issue on day 3 than 30. And yes, nitrifiers can live in a bottle for 6 months easy with no problem and they don't need food. You just don't give them an appetite
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:34 PM   #17
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You forgot IMO, IMO
IMO for what?
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:52 PM   #18
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The best wast to jumpstart your cycle and introduce bacteria is adding live sand and live rock , IMO.

...or even better , if you have a friend with an established tank you can borrow one of thier used filter pads or bioballs.

I don't trust that there is living bacteria inside a sealed bottle that's been sitting on a pet store shelf for 6 months. I just don't buy it....
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Old 04-09-2009, 07:32 PM   #19
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... I will say that anyone that claims they have done a fishless cycle in a brand new aquarium is lying.....
Well then... I will proudly stand up and say that I'm the biggest liar on the face of the earth!

I see this is just one of those thread where someone appears to have an open mind about fishless cycling, but in reality doesn't. Normally it's fishless vs. fish, but I see now it's fishless vs. bacteria in a bottle.

I find it odd that a very new member to AA asks about a product that their fish store is trying to sell them (without mentioning the fish store) and suddenly another new member (actually, their first post) comes on saying that the product is the best thing since sliced bread, and starts typing a major thesis on the benefits of cycling using this stuff. And what do ya know... they happen to mention the very same fish store! Amazing coincidence. I smell a nicely orchestrated little ad campaign! *tips hat*

Fishless cycling works. Cycling with fish works. Cycling with bottled bacteria *may* work, depending on the product and conditions. But to say that fishless cycling does NOT work... well... that's the big lie here.
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:56 PM   #20
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U sure he's not the VP of Marketing. BTW I'm standing right behind you. Done it in brand new tanks for both SW and FW.
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