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ryshark

Aquarium Advice Addict
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,649
Location
Southern California
My new 75gallon tank is really confusing me. It is now a little over 3-weeks old. After 3-days I put 2-damsels, 25lbs of live rock and 13lbs of live sand because my LFS suggested I do this to cycle the tank. After two and a half weeks I never saw an increase in ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. So 4-days ago I threw a medium sized frozen raw cocktail shrimp in there and started feedling the damsels larger portions, to help get things going.
Tonight is 4-days after I put the cocktail shrimp in and I am still reading very low ammonia. In fact, I have a five gallon jug full of premixed water I bought at a LFS and the ammonia indicator from that jug is reading the exact same color as indicator from my tank. Which is somewhere between 0 and .25. The cocktail shrimp is already about half way decayed. I'm sure the one and only hermit crab that hitchiked on my live rock has a little to do with that. I still have never ever seen a nitrite reading and the nitrate reading is the about the same as the very begining which is slightly less than 20.
I have not put any additives in the tank but I do have a bottle of that nitifying bacteria. It is a small bottle only for 20-gallons, but Im thinking about dumping that in there and then just hoping that my tank has actually cycled so I can slowly start getting other fish. Has anybody heard of a tank cycling without ever seeing an ammonia spike or nitrite spike? I would think after 4-days of a dead cocktail shrimp, 2-damsels and fish food that I would be getting more of an ammonia reading. What do you think? I hate to say it but I am getting anxious heading towards 4-weeks and still have not seen an ammonia spike or any nitrites.
Thanks in advance for any help. I appreciate it.
 
When I cycled my first SW tank not too long ago, I didn't even use shrimp. I just threw a large dose of fish food into the tank, then I let it sit for I think close to a month. That worked out very well for me.

After cycling a freshwater tank with fish and having major die-off, I learned my lesson. Fishless cycling is the way to go.
 
I wish I would have read about fishless or I wish my LFS would have told me about fishless before I started. But now even with 2-fish and a raw shrimp, I still can't get any significant amount of ammonia.
 
If you used seeded live sand from an existing tank, and fully cured live rock, you might not see any ammonia. Are you seeing an increase in nitrates from when you started?

I know you mentioned you have 20ppm nitrates - is that from your original fill of water? Or did you start out with 0ppm nitrate water? (If it's from your original fill of water, you might want to think about another source of water or installing a RO/DI filter on your tap. Starting out with 20ppm nitrate water as your source water is pretty much going to make keeping your nitrates low impossible.)

If you see an increase in nitrates, but no ammonia or nitrites as time goes on, then you're good to go. Sometimes you get away with a minicycle (or no ammonia spike) when using fully cured rock and truly live sand.
 
Thanks for the input, that makes sense. When I first put water in the tank, I bought it premixed from my LFS the Nitrate reading was somewhere in between 0-20ppm. The nitrate reading is still about the same as day-1 on July 6th. I have been adding a fair amount of water due to evaporation because I have to keep part of my cover open to prevent greenhouse. Maybe that is keeping my nitrates down. My sand and rock was both very cured. Maybe I should try throwing a bigger raw shrimp in there? The first one I threw in 5-days ago is practically gone already. If the ammonia and nitrite finally starts to rise I will take the shrimp out and add some nitrifying bacteria in an effort to save my damsels. How much ammonia ppm does it take to typically start registering some nitrites? Thanks
 
I looks almost like your sand and cured LR have helped to reduce the ammonia and convert it into nitrAtes. At this point, I would remove the shrimp and keep up on your PWCs so the damsels don't get too stressed.
If your ammonia hit 5ppm or more, I would do a rather large PWC, otherwise this could potentially kill off your beneficial bacteria and cause a larger cycle.
 
ryshark said:
When I first put water in the tank, I bought it premixed from my LFS the Nitrate reading was somewhere in between 0-20ppm.

How are you testing for nitrates? Dip strips, by chance?

Just curious, because with all the nitrate test kits I've seen, you should be able to get a better reading than a range of 0-20ppm. Maybe you should try a different nitrate test kit that will give you more resolution.

If you're getting water from your LFS that is anything but 0ppm nitrates, you need to find a new source of water because they're obviously not keeping up their RO/DI system very well.

It sounds like you're cycled. I wouldn't purposely overload your system just to get ammonia. Instead, I'd get a better handle on your nitrate situation and try to see if those are indeed increasing.
 
Yes I did have the strips. I stopped today and picked up a liquid tester. It can also pick up 5 and 10 not just 0-20 like the strips I had. The liquid is buch better, I wish the LFS would have recommended these to me in the first place instead of selling me $40 worth of strips. Yesterday I bought liquid Nitrite tester and a few days before I picked up the liquid Ammonia tester. No more strips for me!
It looks like my Nitrate is reading about 10 and the Ammonia and Nitrite 0.
Thanks for your advice.
 
ryshark said:
...I wish the LFS would have recommended these to me in the first place instead of selling me $40 worth of strips.

Wow. Do you happen to have another LFS nearby? Might be a good idea to start a new relationship! :lol:

Keep an eye on the nitrates and see if they go up. Better yet, if you have any of the "pure" saltwater you got from the LFS left over, check it.
 
You definitely need to find another LFS but more importantly I would recommend reading and research. "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner is a good publication. Asking a lot of questions and reading replies to other threads on sites like this is also helpful. Lastly, many forums post articles on various topics that I found helpful. There's a lot to learn before you begin pumping money into a Reef tank. If not you are bound to lose a lot of money and even worse, livestock.

Good luck.
 
I did not have any left over water from the LFS that I used to fill my tank. However, I did stop by that same LFS today to buy some. I tested it when I got home and it read a true 0-Nitrate. My aquarium is reading about 10ppm. So that is good new for me.

I did purchase some RO water from a different LFS about a week ago and I put about 1-gallon of that water in my tank after I purchased it. I tested the water from that store and it had a reading of 10+ for Nitates. I won't be going there anymore.
So unless the 1-gallon of water from the bad LFS I added to my 75-gallon tank caused it to go up to 10ppm, I think I have achieved a cycle even though I never saw a spike.
Chase33,
I did read an entire book on saltwater aquariums before I went out and purchased anything. The book was published in 2007 so it had all of the up to date stuff. I also read a lot on the internet. However, I don't think any one piece can contain all of the information for this hobby. Especially for a weird situation like mine with no spikes. I will consider that publication you recommended too. The one thing the book and the store did not mention but I wish they had was a fishless cycle.
I did not find this site until I already got started, but this has been a great find, as I appreciate all of the advice from everybody.
 
There are a lot of people here to help and provide great information. I find answers to most of my questions here. Again, good luck and don't hesitate to ask any questions or post pics :).
 
I've had a pretty similar experience in my 55 gal tank started about 2 months ago. My ammonia and nitrite levels have consistently remained at 0 while my nitrates were at 0 to start and have stayed under 10ppm. I put 20 pounds of live rock and have added here and there, with 60 pounds now. Most was already cured and I have experienced little to no die off. Because you have LR in as well that's already cured, I'm guessing that your filtration system is already working the way it's supposed to. I've heard a lot of different experiences re: LR and the die off, but the LFS I got it from is very good, and has good LR to choose from.
 
You know,,,, its been a while, but I dont think I remember seeing any significant spikes when I was starting my tank. I started out with a few Damsels then in a month or so moved up to cardinals and never really had any trouble with the tank. Had to get rid of the damsels for tank bullying though.
 
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