a few plumbing questions for sump return lines

[scottayy]

This is my desired set up.

The overflow box I'm getting is rated at 300gph. So I'm trying to determine what my water pump gph should be.

1) How much head loss will I incur by splitting the return line into two like in the above diagram?
2) Also, if the pump has a 3/4" outlet for tubing, after I split at the T connection, should I use smaller tubing (such as 1/2") so there's less head loss?
3) And, could I use all vinyl tubing for this or should I use some PVC pipe?
4) Do you think a 500gph return pump would be suitable?

 

[carey]

Very good questions, I'm following to see the answers lol

The sump setup I have planned has just a single return (I aksed about double too) with a 1500gph return pump and my overflow is rated for 1000gph I think. It looked like, based on reading charts that the head only lessens the gph a few dozen per foot of head.

What pump are you planning? Maybe I can find the chart for it.

 

[Hillage]

I'm not very good at head loss, but I've seen people do stuff like this. The longer the water has to travel, the more head loss there is. Also, bends and stuff will also cause more head loss. That is basically what I know for right now... I'll be following to get an expert's advice

Oh, and about the vinyl tubing, and reducing tube size. I think vinyl tubing would be fine, but I'm not sure if head loss would change. And for reducing the size of the tube, you must remember that the gph would be lower. But once again, wait for an expert . Just my $.02

 

[hackteck]

are you trying to use two returns to take the place of powerheads?

 

[scottayy]

are you trying to use two returns to take the place of powerheads?

Not sure, could they?
I just want two returns to be symmetrical haha

 

[scottayy]

I haven't picked out the pump yet carey because I'm concerned about the GPH I need.

If I go with 3/4" tubing after the split, won't that incur more head loss due to the water having to fill up the whole tube before being pushed up (more water = more weight pushed up)?

I'm going to go with "soft plumbing" because I don't have enough room to work behind there and I really don't want to deal with PVC anyways. Just much easier.

But, how can I connect vinyl tubing to the threaded bulkhead on the overflow? Is there a threaded/barbed connector somewhere?

 

[Rscomia]

To figure what your head pressure is first figure your total length then for every 90 degree elbow you have add two feet for every elbow and tee that you have then add the two together

 

[ezy33]

IMO if you could find a "Y" fitting it would lower your head pressure a bit. I have a Squid that alternates from one side to the other adding some to the loss of some head pressure in place of a "T" or a "Y". But it gives a wave type motion to the tank. I used PVC pipe going to the sump and vinyl tubing on the return. http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php Here is a Head Loss Calculator brazenly borrowed from another site. I also have 4 Koralia 4,s in each corner to stir things up. Please note you will need a small hole at the output near the waterline to break the siphon. this will keep the sump from flooding.

 

[Hillage]

Interesting stuff. I'll be sure to remember this when I set up my own larger tank. Just a question, what's the 'small hole at the output near the waterline'? I've heard this before but didn't understand where to put this hole.

 

[David S]

Once you have everything up and running mark the water level onto both of your return pump lines in the tank,then drill a small 1/8" hole about 2mm below this line,this is your air break which stops most of the water flowing back to the sump when you have a power cut,they will also aggitate the waters surface as well helping with gas exchanges.

 

[Hillage]

How does drilling the hole help? I just don't see how it would stop a siphon back down to the sump tank, if the hole is already under water...

 

[ezy33]

When the pump stops the water will back flow into the sump. With a small hole just above the water line air can enter to break the siphon. the hole is only under water when the pump is running. When it stops the water level in the aquarium will drop exposing the hole.

 

[Hillage]

I guess I just don't understand fully where the hole is drilled. I just can't imagine where to drill the hole. Everywhere I can think of just doesn't work out in my head. I'll go look it up some more...

edit: Oh, I found a great pic explaining this. In my head I had the return line going through a hole drilled in the tank, not up and over the back glass. How would you set something up if it was to go through the back glass/acrylic?

 

[scottayy]

Thanks I'll read up on the hole info.

I just emailed F&S and they said i'd have to use pvc pipe and then use an adapter to go to vinyl tubing - for the overflow box to the sump.

That would cost more money (since you can't buy pvc pipe in less than 5' sections, and i'd have to buy more adapters and hose clamps).

So I'll just be running PVC from overflow to sump, then vinyl tubing from sump to return lines.

 

[PontiacFan87]

Thanks I'll read up on the hole info.

I just emailed F&S and they said i'd have to use pvc pipe and then use an adapter to go to vinyl tubing - for the overflow box to the sump.

That would cost more money (since you can't buy pvc pipe in less than 5' sections, and i'd have to buy more adapters and hose clamps).

So I'll just be running PVC from overflow to sump, then vinyl tubing from sump to return lines.

Did you happen to check the plumbing section on F&S website?
MPT x Insert Adapters

 

[Hillage]

Sounds good! Post pics when you're done =D

 

[scottayy]

Sounds good! Post pics when you're done =D

Haven't even ordered parts yet LOL. I'm getting it together in my head first. I'm almost there!

Then I'm just going to order the overflow, pump, and plumbing. The sump is a ways off because it's pretty pricey (and I give up on a DIY sump).

I am going to put together the plumbing and stuff as soon as I get it so I will post pictures of that for sure.

 

[Hillage]

Sounds like a plan! It's always good to think it all through first =) I'm just always wanting pics... When it's all set, post some up! I'll be waiting =)