All this talk about the 'sump'

[Andos99]

As a freshwater person myself, I really have no idea what a sump is used for or how you would set one up. I know it's a smaller tank that typically sits underneath your main display. Other then that I have no idea what it is used for. Are they used in freshwater applications ever, or is it a saltwater thing?

 

[PurpleSmurf]

It can be used for fresh water as easily as salt. I think the general idea is to hide hardware (put the filter, heater, CO2 into the sump, put the sump inside/under your stand and presto!) and increase the capacity of the tank. You may have a 50gallon tank, but with a 20 gallon sump the total volume in circulation is 70, allowing you to overstock without comprimising the fish as much or just keeping water quality higher for longer.

You can also use sumps as growout tanks for plants.

 

[Guest]

how do you pump the water into the sump and back into the aquarium? Say.. for instance i have a 55 gallon with an aquaclear 70 power filter, if i ran it on my extra 10 gallon, how would i get the filtered water from the 55 gallon, into the 10 and back to the 55 gallon. ? i think i would like to set one up.

 

[PurpleSmurf]

I think gravity pulls the water into the sump and then a pump pulls it back up but don't quote me on that.

SW sump plans

 

[AquaJoe]

Good post, I was wondering the same thing myself

Joe

 

[krap101]

yeah you have to start a siphon and then it goes into the sump, gets filtered, and gets pumped back to the fish tank

 

[TomK2]

you use an overflow box that works on a siphon. Even better is to get the corner built in overflow boxes, that don't require the use of a j shaped siphon tube. In the sump is a pump, that sends the water back. Since it is not a closed system (water out and water in are independent of each other), the pump has to be matched to the overflow flow rating. The pump must be set up so that if the overflow/siphon stops, the volume pumped out of the sump will not flood the display tank. Sounds difficult, but it is easy in practice. They sump can hold a large volume of water to increase system volume, and it can hold a very large and efficient wet/dry trickle filter too. Not to mention heaters and other tank things that clutter up the display tank. You could even put animals or plants in the sump, and with the lighting on the sump system and display system out of phase have a remarkably stable system. If you plumb the setup so the sump is in a utility room, you can have holding tanks for water preperation, and do allyour maintenace (except for tank cleaning)away from the display tank.

While I don't have one now, I am a big fan of them.

 

[Guest]

what kind of pump would you use?

sorry to hijack the post.. lol, but i was curious as well and didn't want to start a new thread on the same thing.

 

[czcz]

A submersible pump -- MagDrives are generally considered a benchmark. Its really a project of time: experimentation and reading. Rule of thumb says a sump should be at least 1/3rd of main tank's volume (you'll need saftey room for back flow should you lose power to the sump, space for filtration, and usable volume), and really 10g is too little for a 70g main. There's a lot of info in the archives of this site and many cool designs posted. Compared to BillyZ and sumphead and many, I'm only a newbie with a modest sump, but here's my howto if you want it: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/czcz/howto_fuge.html

Archives and search really are the best tools available for the learning/planning step, especially SW and DIY archives. I'm not suggesting asking questions is bad, but I found reading the archives answered questions I hadn't yet thought of

 

[krap101]

ive heard you dont need to match the pump at all you just need an overflow box and when the water level goes under a certain point it stops siphoning until the water is pumped back into the tank. ill try and find the site

 

[krap101]

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/overflow.htm

okay theres the site, go down to the faq. you need an overflow that can siphon water faster than your pump. then it should regulate itself from what ive read

 

[mumrah]

generally on the feed and return lines to the sump, you add ball valves or something similar. This way you can regulate flow in both directions. But even with that, the basic concept is the water is always pumped from the sump to the tank. And periodically, the waterlevel in the tank will rise above a certain threshold and the overflow will kick in - refilling the sump.

Since this process is periodic and dynamic, it will eventually reach an equilibrium state where the water level in the tank stays pretty constant.

 

[TomK2]

ive heard you dont need to match the pump at all you just need an overflow box and when the water level goes under a certain point it stops siphoning until the water is pumped back into the tank. ill try and find the site

With too much pump, the sump empties too fast (faster than the overflow can fill it) and either the tank floods or the pump runs dry. (this is assuming no fancy cut off switches). Both are bad.

With too little pump the sump level will rise and the tank level will drop up to the level that the overflow box is set. Then the sipon/overflow decreases so that the sump stops filling. So it is best to use a smaller pump than your overflow, you can regulate tank volume and sump volume by the overflow hieght. An overflow that can flow faster than your pump is best for safety and convenience. So decide how much pump flow you want, then build or buy an overflow that is greater than that. How much greater? Don't know. I never measured the ones I had, bought them complete.

But it would be trouble to have a pumnp that is faster than your overflow.

 

[greenmaji]

your overflow box needs to be able to handle more flow than your pump.. its not really a matching thing.. its more of making sure the water can get out of the tank as its being put in..
Ive seen homemade syphon overflows that are made of PVC and a pieces of flexible hose.. they dont skim the surface of the water though.

 

[krap101]

yeah i couldnt really explain it

 

[Andos99]

This is becoming an interesting thread....I have a few more questions about this.....what would be the minimum sump size for a 50 gal? Do you have to have an overflow box to have a sump? Are there any basic setups that aren't so complicated?

 

[greenmaji]

This is becoming an interesting thread....I have a few more questions about this.....what would be the minimum sump size for a 50 gal? Do you have to have an overflow box to have a sump? Are there any basic setups that aren't so complicated?

pump size is the same as the cycles per hour of your filter..
overflow box.. its not the only option.. alot of people drill there tanks and put in bulkheads.. there is another option Ive ran across as well..
http://www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=7024

 

[krap101]

so... its just tubing put into a loop with a hole?

 

[greenmaji]

so... its just tubing put into a loop with a hole?

the hole is at the top of the water level of the tank.. but yes its just a hose in a loop.. there is a version made of pvc.. if you keep reading.. more links as well..

 

[krap101]

okay. i think i might use this. this will make my life alot easier than making the over flow and crap. ill probally use a suction cup to keep it in the tank.

and is there a specific shape that it has to be? like circle oval etc?