Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > General Aquarium Forums > General Hardware/Equipment Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 01-07-2014, 12:59 AM   #1
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
Engineers and uber smart folks..put on your thinking caps...

A friend is having a problem. It has stumped me.
He has his system hard plumbed. No leaks, and it's drive is a Blue Line 70 external pump.
Just for "poops" and giggles, it's a 120 in-wall display and a 30 breeder frag tank with a 20 long refugium and a 100 gallon stock tank used as a sump.
Everything is hard (pvc pipes) plumbed and herd is the problem-

The system has been running fine for a month now, until today when he had a power outage. The sump filled and stopped, then the power was restored and the pump did not push water like it was supposed to. It basically sat idle but heated up so much that the outer casing was barely touchable.
Then after unplugging and plugging back in for a while, it fired back up.

He was so distraught, he went to "Champion lighting and supply" who just happens to be close enough, and bought another blue line 70.
He hooked it up and the exact same problem happened.


The guys at Champion said it was airlocked...that it back drained air into the pump and it could not self-prime. I find this ridiculous since the pump is below the sump and no way would it drain air below the water line inside the sump.
Can you give us any fresh ideas on why both of these pumps are not restarting?









.
__________________

__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 09:20 AM   #2
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Jmunroe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 680
Maybe an airlock farther up the system and not at the pump.. thus not allowing the pump to move water.
__________________

__________________
Jmunroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 09:36 AM   #3
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
But wouldn't the water that's below it, inside the pump move the air back out? I mean, in every system I ever had when you fire the pump back up it blows all the air into the tank before the water.
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Dary421's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego,ca
Posts: 2,810
I know the those pumps are not self priming ( I have one ) so as long as there's a solid water feed to the pump with no air pocket it should run,...I remember when I first bought mine I was outside trying to see how it would work and I had a heck of a time trying to get it primed using the garden hose etc before it would work as intended... Somehow I bet there's an air pocket in the " impeller" section , how it got there who knows but those pumps are designed to use centrifugal force to throw the water outward into the outflow pipe,.if there's any air in there it's just going to spin creating heat.
Just my two cents.
__________________
Dary421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 01:16 PM   #5
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
dmolavi's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sewell, NJ
Posts: 2,123
He doesn't have any section of the plumbing that could be an air "trap", does he? (Think a p-trap, but upside down).
__________________
20 gallon nano-reef torn down to make way for the 40B Reef (original thread and current update).
dmolavi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 04:20 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
Ok...another piece of info- If we choke the pump at the exhaust port to about half, it will start every time. We are thinking that it's the 90 before the pump intake that might be restricting a little flow, but enough to make a difference.
Do you think plumbing this pump straight in front of that hole might be the solution?
How about a length of spa flex instead of an elbow?
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 04:37 PM   #7
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Dary421's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego,ca
Posts: 2,810
IMO the least amount of restrictions the better...it might just be starving for enough water to keep it primed and going ,..... That's a pretty powerful pump and needs a lot of water to make it work,..... Question,..once you restricted the " output" and it started did it continue to pump water or did it die out? If it continued to pump water could you slowly open up that valve to increase to flow to normal? At this point I'd say you got nothing to lose by running a straight line into its input side
__________________
Dary421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 04:39 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
Yes, that's exactly what happened. We opened the valve all the way and it ran fine. Ok. Thanks. I'll keep you posted.
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 10:33 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Gregcoyote's Avatar



Tank of the Month Award
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Posts: 8,320
Engineers and uber smart folks..put on your thinking caps...

Is the diameter of the pump inlet larger than the supply line? It sounds like its cavitating. If the impeller were locked up, the magnetic drive wouldn't heat up that much but if the impeller were spinning with no water flow, it will eventually fail for good.

If there is any leak on the supply line, air could be getting trapped. The pump won't pump air, it needs water flow to purge the air in the system. The back force on the outlet could be causing a bubble to get trapped right at the impeller. Moving the plumbing around a bit may cure it.

How does air enter the system anyway? If the inlet is always below water, and the outlet doesn't drain the pump when it's off, it shouldn't ever loose it's prime. If that's the case install a one way back flow valve that will hold the water column in the pipe.
__________________
Gregcoyote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 12:06 PM   #10
Adipose Fins Are Cool!
 
Old Scales's Avatar


 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 2,752
In our industrial set ups at the place I worked, back flow valves were always required on all our fluid control systems. OS.
__________________

__________________
Bonified member of "The Wet Arm Society".
One's life should be measured by the number of people who smile when they remember you.
Old Scales is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cap, caps

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.