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Old 05-05-2011, 02:40 PM   #11
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As stated in a prior response... Too much filtration isn't a bad thing... This will however, always be a topic for debate.. Personally, I aim for a 10x minimum. In my 150gal. I have (2) eheim 2213 and (1) eheim 2217 for mechanical and chemical filtration and in my new 225gal build I'm rated for 3600gph, which is actually 15x, but with lift and pipe joints, im probably around 3000-3200 gph.

My thought process is this; In nature the water changes constantly. As long as your current in the tank Isn't knocking your fish around.. Why shouldn't you have the highest filtration possible...

Certainly no one will complain of your tank being too clean... Especially your fish!
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:40 PM   #12
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You can also do without a filter depending on you setup in saltwater you can do what is called Berlin filtration with a ton of live rock and power heads. And for freshwater you can do a dirt substrate and a very heavily planted tank and just run a air stone. People have success both ways it's all preference. Check out dust ins fish tank on YouTube all his tanks are filterless
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:49 PM   #13
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You can also do without a filter depending on you setup in saltwater you can do what is called Berlin filtration with a ton of live rock and power heads. And for freshwater you can do a dirt substrate and a very heavily planted tank and just run a air stone. People have success both ways it's all preference. Check out dust ins fish tank on YouTube all his tanks are filterless

I have been asking about doing that with my sw tank. But I never found anyone who knew anything about it. With enough lr and a skimmer could a sw tank thrive?
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:57 PM   #14
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I have been asking about doing that with my sw tank. But I never found anyone who knew anything about it. With enough lr and a skimmer could a sw tank thrive?
If you figure it out, please do a build thread on it. I want my future SW tank to be self sustaining too.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:17 PM   #15
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The Berlin method is a well accepted method for filtration. It works best in reef only systems because primarily a few things need to be considered. First, your population will have to be kept to a minimum. Two, water changes will have to be more frequent (increasing labor and salt costs) and Three, you're waiting for detritus to be broken down and 'skimmed' out rather than physically removed. Again, in a reef system detritus would be minimal compared to a FOWLR...

In short, IMO, the Berlin method is great for small tanks with a low population and may also be a 'cheaper' alternative. But in the end it all boils down to personal needs and wants...

For the record, if it was my freshwater planted tank, with a few angels... At a 125g I would have and undergravel filter w/powerheads, an air/bubble wall... A dual bio wheel filter... And while that would be enough... I would add a micron filter (magnum 350, ocean clear, etc).. Just for dedicated water polishing as the bio-wheel would have "amo-carb" containers in it.... With that... I could do whatever I wanted... Even go salt... <ahem, hint hint>

Good luck to you.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:22 PM   #16
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Ok, I'll start a new thread for the berlin/sumpless filtration. I'm a notorious thread hi jacker. lol
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:26 PM   #17
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PS... I must admit... I know very little when it comes to FW, primarily planted tanks... So my filtration advice may not apply in the cases of dirt bottoms...
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:04 PM   #18
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There is a wide variety of dirt substrate the best IMO would be mineralized top soil. And organic choice miracle grow with iron additives(clay). Or you can buy expensive product. But not necessary. And Berlin is just a ton of LR with power heads it's the most sort after filtration for sw. Their is a ton of info on both just google mineralized top soil for fw. And Berlin filtration for sw. And you'll get all the info needed
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:31 PM   #19
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This discussion comes up again and again, and it is clear from the responses that everyone knows more about filtration than the manufacturers of the equipment. I use primarly sponge filters in my tanks. the reason is cost and the need for only one small air pump that uses 18 watts of electricity to run 14 filters. I can pretty much guarantee that these tanks don't have 10 times turnover, or probably not even 3 times per hour, but they are all functioning just the same.
I have said this before and will say it again. If your filter is taking care of ammonia and nitrites so that they read 0 ppm, than the filter is doing the job, regardless of what the turnover rate is. Adding another filter or a bigger one with a higher turnover will not make those numbers any lower. They will make the numbers on your hydro bill larger. There are those that successfully operate tanks, usually planted, with no filtration. Can you guess what their turnover rate is?
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:00 PM   #20
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There is a wide variety of dirt substrate the best IMO would be mineralized top soil. And organic choice miracle grow with iron additives(clay). Or you can buy expensive product. But not necessary. And Berlin is just a ton of LR with power heads it's the most sort after filtration for sw. Their is a ton of info on both just google mineralized top soil for fw. And Berlin filtration for sw. And you'll get all the info needed
Mineralized top soil? Just going thru the instructions to understand it makes my back ache lol. I put down 1" of spg. peat moss (pre-soaked), cover that with a thin layer of laterite, capped with 2" of washed PFS. It's easy to set up and it don't have to spend 2 months (whatever it is) preping it and my vals are shooting up all over the place.
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