I need filter advice and substrate advice.

[davids aquarium]

I am setting up a 90 gallon freshwater tank for native fish and 6 small turtles. It will be a native Ozark stream envoirnment. The tank will be filled half full of water. I want white sand for the bottom but I also want an under gravel filter. Will this work?? Or would an external filter be better?? Have Fun! David

[mr86mister]

external filter alllllllll the way, [acronym:8035dc6ba1="Under Gravel Filter"]UGF[/acronym:8035dc6ba1]'s are "old school" and dont do nearly a good as job as a [acronym:8035dc6ba1="Hang On Back"]HOB[/acronym:8035dc6ba1] or other filters.....it should be all fine and dandy as long as you dont have a [acronym:8035dc6ba1="Under Gravel Filter"]UGF[/acronym:8035dc6ba1]....good luck!!!

[Fishyfanatic]

An [acronym:8f2667ba67="Under Gravel Filter"]ugf[/acronym:8f2667ba67] won't work with sand. What type of sand are you going to be using? For 90 [acronym:8f2667ba67="Gallon"]gal[/acronym:8f2667ba67], are you looking into more of a [acronym:8f2667ba67="Hang On Back"]hob[/acronym:8f2667ba67] or canister filter? Considering that the tank will only be half full, I'd suggest a canister or internal filter. The [acronym:8f2667ba67="Hang On Back"]hob[/acronym:8f2667ba67] will have a big splash on the surface of the water. With canisters you can have the output tube go down to below your water level.

[acronym:8f2667ba67="By the way"]BTW[/acronym:8f2667ba67]- Which fish are you wanting to keep? I know that you said fish that are native to the Ozark region, but remembering back to when we used to vacation to our summer house in the ozarks, there are MANY different types of fish in that lake. Many that got so big I thought they would eat my head whole.

[fishyrican]

Another consideration with an [acronym:4c199d24c7="Hang On Back"]HOB[/acronym:4c199d24c7] filter is that the impeller may not have enough power to pull the water all the way up the tank. The water level in the intake tube will equal the water level in the tank. With a full tank, it is a small trip from the top of the tank to the filter. However, when the water is half full, the impeller must pull the water on its own all the way to the filtration chamber. The filter may not be strong enough to do that.

[greenmaji]

davids aquarium.. I am a little old school myself.. but the [acronym:100c16cf09="Under Gravel Filter"]UGF[/acronym:100c16cf09] has been relegated to very few uses in the hobby now.. Like a fry grow-out tank.. but sponge filters are perfered in this case because of cost and ease of maintains.. not to mention there just as effective..
you cant do sand and a [acronym:100c16cf09="Under Gravel Filter"]UGF[/acronym:100c16cf09] anyway.. the grain size is way too small..
I personally quit using [acronym:100c16cf09="Under Gravel Filter"]UGF[/acronym:100c16cf09]'s about 12 years ago but I might have been a little early on the bandwagon.. I quit using airpumps on [acronym:100c16cf09="Hang On Back"]HOB[/acronym:100c16cf09] and Canister filtered tanks back then as well.. Im wondering when everyone will be arguing how little they are needed as well..[acronym:100c16cf09="Laughing out loud"]LOL[/acronym:100c16cf09]

[Fishyfanatic]

I'm with you GM. In 20 years we will all be saying, Canisters? They are SO outdated. An [acronym:51190bbe55="Under Gravel Filter"]UGF[/acronym:51190bbe55], what is THAT?

[Toirtis]

Only a good canister or two, or a sump wet/dry could even come close to handling the waste produced by 2 turtles, much less 6. What species of turtles are you planning to house?

[greenmaji]

In 20 years we will be skimming [acronym:25312bd1ac="Freshwater"]FW[/acronym:25312bd1ac] and/or all using Algae scrubbers!! [acronym:25312bd1ac="Rolling on the floor laughing"]ROFL[/acronym:25312bd1ac]..

Toirtis is right thats alot of turtles!

[davids aquarium]

OK guys, I get the point! My turtles are about 1.5 inch long. I can put all of them in a coffee cup. They are soft shell, snapping, red ear,map and painted. OK only 5 turtles now. I will be adding long ear sunfish bullhead cat and stream minnows and crawfish. So I can forget about under gravel filter completely. I am amazed at all the fast replies yall have sent. Great bunch of advisors! I appreciate all the info! Keep talking. David

[greenmaji]

Toiris should be able to advise you on wich turtles you should be able to keep long term in the tank.. Im certan that the snapping turtle is out... it will end up eating your livestock and they get freaking huge!! of the turtles the painted turtle sounds like it might stay small enough.. but it will need to be able to get out of the water occationaly.. same with all of the turtles besides the softshell and I think the male gets too big I could be wrong on that one Im trying to remeber..
I think the long ears are great.. bullhead cat might get a bit big as well.. the minnows sound like there life would be limited to becoming a snack by more than one of the others you have listed..
I love the idea of a native tank Im wondering what you will be able to keep out of what you want.. Im waiting to hear others advise on this one..
A big [acronym:cc67a79c24="Do it yourself"]DIY[/acronym:cc67a79c24] wet/dry might be a good way to go on this one.. does the tank already have a bulkhead? if not you can get a overflow box the ones rated for 1200 [acronym:cc67a79c24="Gallons per hour"]gph[/acronym:cc67a79c24] are not too expensive..