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Old 03-21-2013, 02:39 PM   #1
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Led lighting

HI EVERYONE
i have a 220 gallon tank no plants just salt water fish and im looking to buy a LED system now i have gotten bad reviews from Marineland Double Bright LED Lighting System

so i was wondering if anyone has any led lighting system that they wanna share there opinion with so i know which one exactly to buy
my tank dimensions are 6ft wide 30" high 24" deep

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:15 PM   #2
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I just retrofitted my stock 36 watt times four bank 50/50 3000 k temp compact flourescent lights with the EVO 1G 120 watt LED system and love it. My tank is around 22 inches deep but only 48 across and is 60 gallons. Here's a link to a short You Tube video I did on the retrofit.

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:19 PM   #3
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I am using 50w led flood lights purchased off ebay. They are 14000k .. Suspended 8 inches from the top they look pretty good and fish and coral seem to be loving it.

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:53 PM   #4
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Rapid LED Onyx light. Priced right and state of the art. See my review under Dynamic Aquarium.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
Rapid LED Onyx light. Priced right and state of the art. See my review under Dynamic Aquarium.
I disagree with your point of view on the price. It maybe has the quality like AI Sol, but I will need to point out few things that concerns me.

1) I don't see any info on if the light is dimmable or not, not on your post, nor on their site. I would say the light is not dimmable. You can't really find a fixture that doesn't offer dimming options, to have one that can't be dimmed cost over $270 is very very expensive. That being said, if the light can out perform other fixture, I would say $270 for a 6" fixture is still fine. That lead to my second concern.

2) It said on the site the fixture is similar to AI Sol, however, AI Sol is consuming 75W power and onyx consume 90W. That alone tells us it is not efficient as AI, you got more LEDs, running higher power and yet only running at similar light output as AI sol.

3) Base on your PAR reading that compare to the Taotronic:
"Under the middle of the fixture:
750 at the surface
300-400 midway
200-250 at the bottom (18" deep)"

First, you are comparing CREE with Bridgelux or even EPISTAR, for those read a lot about LEDs would know CREE is always approx. 25% more powerful(efficient) than bridgelux and could be even more than EPISTAR or any other brand.

To compare to the fixture, here is a PAR reading for a 90W "Taotronic" unit with CREE @ 3 and half " above water level.
3" 3000(Off the chart so the meter not able to give me the true reading)
6" 2047 (9")
12" 753 (15")
24" 316 (27")
32" 230 (35")
36" 200 (39")
(*) is how far it is from the fixture.

So the PAR you got was 12" AWL
So at 30" it is 200-250 that is about 35 to 40" range PAR reading for the 90W "Taotronic"

To give you an idea on that fixture pricing, it is about $336 with dimming and timer or $399 with controller that can do cloudy and lunar cycle and built-in timer.

4)UV ( anything less than 400nm) is great, but violet/purple are overrated. It doesn't worth the extra $30 to $50 more just because the fixture has "violet"
To back up what I said, you can easily compare a fixture that has no Violet/purple/UV LED diodes like AI SOL White spectrum graph.
AI Sol - Performance

VS

Something has 405nm (by far the closest to true UV in the market) like the Ecotec Radion
Radion ™ XR30w Pro | EcoTech Marine

You can see the actual spike below 400nm almost identical, it contain almost the same amount of spectrum around 390nm. The only thing that actually is different is the spike around 405nm range (simply they added that specific spectrum LED in there)

I am only trying to point out the facts why I think Onyx is actually way over priced with ok performance and no dimming. All data taken are from 3rd party site like AI and ecotec. The only piece data is taken by me is the PAR reading I took with apogee 200 PAR meter. If you find any of my point is not true, you are welcome to speak out as I am willing to listen to others opinion.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:53 AM   #6
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Sorry you take offense to this light. not much to dislike IMO, but everyone has an opinion. You sound like you have studied this quite a bit yourself, but I cant agree with many of your comments. $270 is a good price to pay in comparison to fixtures you discuss that are almost three times that price. lets compare apples to apples, i wasn't comparing them to Radions as I personally would not invest that much in a fixture.

It is not dimable, yet.

The extra colors do enhance the look of the coral and that's not a bad thing. I don't believe it will greatly effect growth, maybe not at all, but making my pride mother colonies look good is pleasing and worth a couple of extra bucks.See Coral Magazine and SanJays tests with LEDs. I have also seen some big reefs done lately using some accent color. All white and royal blue LEDs look pretty blue/white and is a bit flat looking to me when comparing fixtures side by side. The Onyx looks more like my old MH/actinic system, which also grew coral like a banshee, but ran my chiller all th time. Not sure about the UV violet LEDs, but have an open mind. Using the Crees and having fewer emitters also enhances the shimmer effect over a panel with 50 emitters. I am sure you can agree with that.

The Al Sols I have seen were not impressive but nice and radions are dramatically overpriced, IMO.

I was comparing standard 120 watt Chinese panels (usually $150-180) as seen sold by everybody on EBay, even Taotronics. Have not used their new dimmable fixture. It looks much nicer but more expensive. In three years with 8 fixtures I have lost one panel and two drivers. That's not good odds with these low cost panels.

Lenses have much effect as well as the voltage the emitters are driven at when it comes to PAR generated and how deep. Certainly different brands of LEDs have different efficiencies. So I wasn't surprised by the efficiency increase either.
When I do my big reef, which is 38" deep I will do some careful PAR measurements at deeper levels.

Cloud cover effects and storms don't mean anything to me. And I prefer if it doesn't use a proprietary controller when they do produce a dimable version, reefers using advanced lighting probably have a controller. Otherwise timers are cheap for fixtures that don't have them built in.

I am holding out for the controllable fixtures for the main reef, but my frag system could care less about dimming lights.

I stand by my claim that they are a good value fixture that performs well and makes my coral look nice. To me they were worth the extra $100. Time will tell as to how they grow coral.

My Apogee 200 pegged right under the LEDs too, so what? Out of water readings are always off the chart. Anyway, good discussion.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:45 AM   #7
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no one take offended, people that know me or read my post would understand that I post most of comment base on facts and not bias in any way.

Color doesn't get enhance by any special spectrum, the only thing that work is the true UV which force coral produce colorful pigments.


All other spectrum can barely get down to the ocean so they don't serve any purpose than eye candies. However, "full spectrum" does not need add specific red green or orange color LED diodes. You can actually can achieve it by using warm white and NW.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:55 AM   #8
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Just commenting on what my eyes perceive. The warm colored LEDs simply makes the coral look better.

I was a underwater photographer for years. You are correct, the warmer colors are filtered out to any coral that live much more than 10-20' down, but some corals live shallower than that and are exposed to these other radiations. They can be quite colorful as a result. As a photographer, I learned to tote huge lights with me to photograph the corals. There is something to be said about the value of displaying a corals beauty to its full effect as well as feed its algae. That's where a broader spectrum LED has value IMO.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:46 AM   #9
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I fail to see your point. To me the basic thing to start is health of the coral, then the look of the tank. Onyx can do a fine job but with no dimming, it just simply doesn't justify the cost. Like I said, thru out the post I didn't push any of my own product therefore my purpose was not to talk down other product while I am promoting my own. What I provided is just the facts and data from others not myself. People are welcome to make their choice base on the info I provided. I just can't agree on calling the fixture well priced when its clearly not. $270 without the most important feature of LED, dimming, can simply tell you rapidled made the fixture for only one purpose which is simply trying to get a share of the pie without paying too much to develop their own controller. I have nothing against them personally, in fact, I think they provide the best DYI kit out there. That is also why I know that they are more knowledge than this which providing "half complete" fixture. How are you going to convince others that dimming is not needed while most of their kit comes with dimming?
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:16 AM   #10
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Great discussion of both very knowledgeable people about the most debatable topics in reef keeping. I would say both sides have strong points. After a year of my aquarium hobby, I have noted that there are people who just put more emphasis on the best process in growing corals and fish in the aquarium. While there are others who extend the fun by spending extras simulating the conditions of the real reef. I am inclined to the later. After all, the purpose of the hobby is to give comfort and entertainment to everyone.
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