Looking to use an under gravel filter

[jaderman]

Wow thanks for all the posts I learned quite a bit about UGFs and I am still not sure which route I'm gunna go. Def not canisters though. Them suckers are EXPENSIVE!!! At least for my budget. I don't mind using the gravel vac with every water change cuz I currently do exactly that every two weeks with my 20 gallon and that doesn't have a UGF anyways. I guess it's just what everyone prefers. I wanted the UGF for the extra filtration that's all. I was told the extra filtration would only help. That's all.

 

[fishguy1]

Def not canisters though. Them suckers are EXPENSIVE!!! At least for my budget. ......

There are less expensive options. I have two of these (one is 264 gph and the other 530 gph) and I like them every bit as much as the XPs and Fluvals, if not MORE. 3-STAGE CANISTER AQUARIUM FILTER FOR FRESH/SALT WATER - eBay (item 160404927985 end time Feb-10-11 11:56:47 PST)

Once you switch to a canister, you'll never go back.

 

[Laurence]

Undergravel filters are a huge nuisance, especially in a large tank. They eventually clog up, which means you have to remove all the plants and substrate to clean the filter, then put it all back again, which disrupts the entire aquarium and is bad for the plants. Also, plant roots become entangled in the filter, which makes it even more of a hassle to clean. On a tank that size your best bet is a good outside canister filter, which can be cleaned and maintained easily. (Benn there, done that.)

 

[Darwin]

Back in the day… I used to use one and loved it, I had a 30 gallon tall set up for over 3 years with a single powerhead working the UGF, I also had a HOB running with it. It was even planted. I was told at the time to place a 3/8 “ thick floss material under the gravel that I did do and after the 3 years I had to move and took the tank down. The amount of sludge material under it was minimal. That tank was one of the most trouble free tanks I have ever had. Do UGF have issues yep! Same as any set up no matter what filter you use. “Outdated” I wouldn’t use that term.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

There are less expensive options. I have two of these (one is 264 gph and the other 530 gph) and I like them every bit as much as the XPs and Fluvals, if not MORE. 3-STAGE CANISTER AQUARIUM FILTER FOR FRESH/SALT WATER - eBay (item 160404927985 end time Feb-10-11 11:56:47 PST)

Once you switch to a canister, you'll never go back.

That looks like a Marineland C-series knock-off. I wonder who makes it???

As for UGFs, I ran them for years but never did frequent enough maintenance and tore the tank down once a year (when I didn't know much better) to clean the tank. Had one crash big time when I slacked on maintenance but that was my fault. I ran it with 2 powerheads.

Last time I set it up, in 6 months the crud that built up was pretty nasty - I took it out, because I was going planted, and got a Marineland C-series canister and I'll never go back to a UGF. 30 minutes to clean it every 3 weeks and it also could handle an immense bio-load, which I definitely had.

As for the cost, you just cannot beat a UGF. Plates and 2 power heads and that's it. like what is stated above, you have to diligently clean down to the gravel plate to suck all the gunk out on a weekly basis, and it's best to use larger diameter gravel that will not compact and obstruct flow.

I came up with a pretty decent idea for cleaning under a UGF plate without removing it. You take a canister filter with a diatom cartridge in it (Marineland Magnum 350 is what I have) and use some long flex hose, connect the intake hose to the UGF riser tube, and then stick the output hose to one of the other connection points on the UGF at the opposite end, and just blow the crud right out. You would only need to do this once about every 6 months to a year. I never tried this since I went planted and took out the UGF plate, but it sounded like a great idea. I think it would work well with the large rectangular Penn-Plax white plate (large corrugations) but not well with the smaller square ones (do NOT buy those).

PS if you want a UGF I've still got mine & probably won't use it again. It's 20+ years old but in perfect condition, except a little yellow. Have all caps, riser tubes, etc (for a 55 = 2x plates)

 

[fishguy1]

That looks like a Marineland C-series knock-off. I wonder who makes it???

There's a good reason for this - the company that makes these is the manufacturer of the marineland canisters.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

How can I find out who it is, I need a replacement part!!

 

[fishguy1]

How can I find out who it is, I need a replacement part!!

What part?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Valve block and impeller for C-360.

 

[fishguy1]

Valve block and impeller for C-360.

http://www.marineland.com/sites/Marineland/Documents/CSeriesManual.pdf

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes I have found that manual and I know the part I need, but it's $25 on BigAls and impeller is another $12 plus shipping, so ~$50 but I'm going to sell it on eBay. I think I'd be lucky to get $50 so I'm trying to get parts cheaper.

 

[WendiDell]

I bought UGF's for both my 55g and my 10g QT, what a waste of money. I had it in my Cichlid tank first. It caused all sorts of water problems. I vacuumed like crazy and my water stayed toxic. After a week of continuous PWC, I finally figured out all the gunk was hiding under the UGF.
I never even took the 10g out of the box.
I wish I could get my money back, but no such luck.
I would adamantly advise against ever using an UGF.
But to each their own.

 

[glassbird]

"I bought UGF's for both my 55g and my 10g QT, what a waste of money. I had it in my Cichlid tank first. It caused all sorts of water problems. I vacuumed like crazy and my water stayed toxic. After a week of continuous PWC, I finally figured out all the gunk was hiding under the UGF."

Just curious...did you run the UGF in the 55 with powerheads? A tank that size would have 2 UGF plates, so you would need 2 powerheads, minimum. Were you also using a second type of filter, like a HOB or cannister?

I am trying to figure out why some people (like me) use UGFs quite successfully, and others have a hard time with them.

 

[WendiDell]

"I bought UGF's for both my 55g and my 10g QT, what a waste of money. I had it in my Cichlid tank first. It caused all sorts of water problems. I vacuumed like crazy and my water stayed toxic. After a week of continuous PWC, I finally figured out all the gunk was hiding under the UGF."

Just curious...did you run the UGF in the 55 with powerheads? A tank that size would have 2 UGF plates, so you would need 2 powerheads, minimum. Were you also using a second type of filter, like a HOB or cannister?

I am trying to figure out why some people (like me) use UGFs quite successfully, and others have a hard time with them.

I have 2 Marine H.O.T Magnum Canister filters and i wanted to see if the UGF would make tank maintenance easier.
The instruction said I could use and air pump. So I got 2 dual port 100g rated air pumps. It made lots of bubbles come up through the gravel but zero gunk. I battled them for a while but I finally gave up.
Now I have Air bars running the length of the back wall in all 4 of my tanks. It's a much better use of the air pumps. And my fish are very happy with all the bubbles.

 

[glassbird]

Interesting! I did not know that the instructions that come with a new UGF plate STILL say to use an air pump. No mention of powerheads, at all? Seems to me that the UGF manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot BIG time!

I have not priced air pumps and powerheads in a long time, but I bet a decent powerhead costs around the same as an air pump big enough to "supposedly" run a UGF...and less prone to mechanical problems, too.

Still just my opinion (but based on years of experience), a UGF can be a good secondary filter in a tank IF you have adaquate suction thru the plates...hence a powerhead.

I wonder too, if the depth of the gravel and the size of the gravel pieces are playing a major role as well. Adaquate (and correct) use of a gravel cleaner seems to be important too.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I used 2 Penguin 1100 (I think that's the model) power heads, they just sit on top of the riser tubes. They're workhorses, I think I've ran them both a cumulative total of 6 years each. don't use them right now, except occasionally to mix saltwater in a 5g bucket for a small batch.

I had 2 more before those that quit working, but they lasted 6-10 year too.

 

[hookthefish]

Any advise on my planed RUGF system.

I have a 50 gallon acrylic wich I put two 3/4" bulkheads though the bottom (centered on each side) with a perfecta flow plate. I plan on puting 2 more bulkheads on the back tank wall, above the gravel line for the intake.
So the 2 back wall bulkheads would be piped in to one, then to a 950 GPH external pump mounted to 2- BIG BLUE house water filters. One being 20 micron cartridge, the other being 2/3 carbon, 1/3 fiber fill. Then piped back up to the 2 bottom bulkheads for output UGF.

Any sugesstions?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So are you running a closed-loop system that has the intakes above the gravel and the output jets under the UGF plate? Do you have true-union ball valves set up so you can change the filters?

 

[hookthefish]

Yes, I do have ball valves and larger 1" pipe and tubing. I would like to show people that reverse undergrave filter will work and the filters at the pet stores are a joke, and INADEQUATE.
First, Biological filtration is the most important when it comes to stocking number and feeding. The more square feet of surface area for the bacteria to grow on the beter it breaks bown waste and ammonia. After looking online for bilogical square feet for gravel. I found that 3" of 1/4" gravel for my size tank gives me 300 square feet of bioligical surface area.( not including tank decorations)
Second, once you buy a filter at a pet store, they got you. They are to small, ( for a few fish its ok) and you have to buy they're filter pads, media bags, ect, ect... for as long as you have they're filter. House water filters like Watts Big blue filter gives you options for diffrent pleated cartridge from different companys, and/or buy an empty refillable media cartridge and put in your own filter media like fiber fill, zeolite,carbon, biological media. I allso belive you can make your own fluidized sand bed filter by reversing the flow in and output, pipe the center with cap, drill holes though the cap and put a sponge at the output.
Third carbon greatly decreases organic waste and pervents algae from cloging filters, tubing or pipe wich resticts the water flow. Most pet store filters don't give enough carbon and the carbon pads are a joke.
Forth, water pumps are allways under estimated, allso pipe and tubing size. Allways go larger because the more tubing, pipe, elbows, filters and the smaller the diameter of tubing/pipe restict's the flow rate and would hold back the full effectiveness of your filter.

5 years research and study, 12 years of Tank, pond, pen aquaculture.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I can't say that I disagree with you very much at all! It sounds like it will work great, much like a pool filter.

Most people run RUGF with power heads blowing down the standpipes and don't have the option to drill the bottom of their tank.

A couple things to consider are

1) the intakes are toward the bottom, as is the return. There won't be much circulation at the top of the tank with this setup, which is where the oxygen exchange happens. You might have to have a powerhead or two in order to have good circulation.

2) Most aquarium pumps are designed so that there is low negative intake pressure. That is based on assumption, so correct me if I am wrong, but almost every piece of advise I see on throttling back a pump says to put the restriction on the outflow, not the intake. Therefore, unless you get a special pump, your intake from the tank will go directly to the pump. This could be bad for anything that makes it's way through the intake strainer in the tank. So you have to make sure that you have some kind of pre-filter before the pump, and then all your other filtration would be after the pump. This would mimic a canister filter but be opposite of a sump-type setup. You setup is basically a canister filter methodology adapted to a non-sump sump.

I think I even confused myself!!