Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > General Aquarium Forums > General Hardware/Equipment Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 10-27-2010, 11:17 AM   #11
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,682
Thanks. That does make sense and I suspected that was the case.

However, it still leaves the question of the weakest link. It seems that the flow would be restricted anyways since the bulkhead is designed to take a screw-in adapter for a 3/4" ID hose. I will look at Menards (they carry the best selection of Schedule 80 adapters) to see if they have one with the same threading and a 1-1/2" hose connector.

The other issue is still the riser tube leading from the bulkhead up to the jets, this is not 1-1/2" diameter I guarantee it. So you end up with a choke point no matter what you do.

I thought about maybe finding a fitting to go on the outside of the threading on the bulkhead under the tank, however I discovered quickly that this is not a standard diameter and the only fitting that matches it is the locking nut that comes with the bulkhead. So that's not an option.

The worst-case option is drilling out a larger bulkhead on a tank in use. Not something I want to attempt
__________________

__________________
My tanks: 120 Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber, 60 Reef Pond w/floating Algae Scrubber, 40 Breeder Reef w/L2 UAS Tester Algae Scrubber
I maintain: 144 SW Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber | 200 SW Reef w/L4 Algae Scrubber
Special knowledge: Algae Scrubbers, Acrylic Fabrication
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 01:45 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 79
You should be able to find an adapter for the 1 1/2" hose to the bulkhead. It may take 2 or 3 pieces but will be possible. Again, take it to the hardware store if possible. Remember though, that the pump can only habdle what the outflow can flow. Another words, too much return flow and the tank will over flow and you'll have to valve the pump down anyway. The flow you have now just may be sufficent enough and why mess with it? I use my mag 24 solely for a closed loop system which feeds 6 outlets with a SCWD in between for a closed loop wavemaker. Too fast a flow through your sump is not always a good thing. Water movement INSIDE display tank is important, not from tank to sump amd back. Know what I mean?
__________________

__________________
waynotcars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 03:20 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,682
I'm with you. Right now the tank has over 250# LR (estimated), 2 Koralia 2's and 1 Koralia 3 (or maybe the other way around - one bigger one). But that's not the issue. I am running an Algal Turf Scrubber (ATS - see that thread) and the screen needs 35 GPH/inch of screen, minimum, which equals 700 GPH. Otherwise, the algae won't get enough Iron, grows unevenly, and isn't as effective.

So I can see how I can plumb from the pump to the bulkhead, no problem. I'm still struggling with the physics / flow dynamics of a choke point in the return line. Maybe I need to look at the adapter closer, but wouldn't the ID of the adapter into the bottom of the bulkhead and the adapter going out of the top of the bulkhead still restrict the flow? Is it less of an issue since it's only a short length of the overall return path? If the riser tube from the bulkhead to the jets is smaller than 1-1/2", isn't this all moot?

Also, the tank is a 125 peninsula tank, meaning the overflow is on one end and should be plenty large to handle 900 GPH+...but I better double check that!!!
__________________
My tanks: 120 Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber, 60 Reef Pond w/floating Algae Scrubber, 40 Breeder Reef w/L2 UAS Tester Algae Scrubber
I maintain: 144 SW Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber | 200 SW Reef w/L4 Algae Scrubber
Special knowledge: Algae Scrubbers, Acrylic Fabrication
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 03:58 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 79
Well, speaking from personal experience. I just recently, like last week, went through this on my closed loop. I spent a LOT of mula on a mag 24. I plumbed it to my closed loop with 1" ID hose which went right into the SCWD (switching Current water device. From OUT of the scwd's two 1" outlets, for SOME dumb reason I adapted down to 3/4" ID pvc. Well the SCWD's switch rate depends on the flow hitting it's gears. First off, I was SO disappointed with the flow coming out of my 6 closed loop outlets. IMO it was weak as He--. Then, the rate at which the SCWD switched sides was crazy slow. I thought, man, WHAT size pump do I have to buy to get the flow I want?? Well, a few days ago my mag 24 sucked up a piece of plastic wire tie that came loose in tank and BAM there went the impeller (cheezy cheap things for the price, the impellers I mean). SO, I ordered a new impeller and I thought to myself, while this thing is down LET me plumb it RIGHT. So I want to hardware store with pump cover and said, listen man, I want to come of this thing with 1 1/2 " ID tube and go into my 1" SCWD opening. In 5 minutes the guy hooked me up with the adapters I needed. I RE-built the closed loop coming OUT of the scwd with 1" pipe instead of the 3/4" I was using. Now, granted, at the SCWD, where it goes down from 1 1/2" to 1" is a choke point BUT less of one then I had before. Well all I can says is WOW!! What a difference! The flow is INSANE! and the SCWD switches at a rapid rate and my 220 is filled with current and waves. My 1 1/2" hose from the Mag to the SCWD is about 2 feet tall. I GUESS that just that little bit LESS of restriction made ALL the difference in the world.
__________________
waynotcars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 04:45 PM   #15
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,682
Interesting...Thanks for the description!

It sounds like, based on your description, one short choke point versus a long run of restricted cross-section produces better flow. I think I'll try switching the pump-to-bulkhead tubing first, and see if that makes a difference before doing the whole riser/jet stack...
__________________
My tanks: 120 Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber, 60 Reef Pond w/floating Algae Scrubber, 40 Breeder Reef w/L2 UAS Tester Algae Scrubber
I maintain: 144 SW Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber | 200 SW Reef w/L4 Algae Scrubber
Special knowledge: Algae Scrubbers, Acrylic Fabrication
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 10:08 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
the output on a mag24 is 1" I.D. it makes absolutely no sense to put a 1.5" hose on a 1" threaded outlet.
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 11:08 PM   #17
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 79
Really? Then you should contact Danner Manufacturing and ask WHY they specifically SAY to use a minimum of 1 1/2" id hose for best flow AND that is what their flow specs are based upon? Look up their manual on web, it's there and disagree with the manufacturer and tell THEM they make "absolutely no sense". Don't bother arguing with me, argue with the manufacturer. I am SURE you know MORE then they do about their own pumps.
__________________
waynotcars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 11:10 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 79
Here is the link to the PDF instruction manual for the mag 24. Please read, THEN comment

http://www.aquacave.com/Manuals/Dann...-Manual.PDFent.
__________________
waynotcars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 11:21 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 79
Here is a quote from Melv's Reef.com in regard to his closed loop system he used a Mag 7 with:

What sized plumbing should I use?
The Mag pump comes with printed instructions that state to double the outlet size to determine the plumbing needed. The Mag 7 has a 1/2" outlet, and the pvc needs to be 1". If you use 1" plumbing, you'll get better flow than if you used smaller I.D. (inside diameter) pvc. Now that brings up a new problem, in that you need it to get smaller for the SCWD, and then ramp back up to larger pipe to avoid constriction. So you'll have to find "bushings" or reducers to make things work. Or use larger flexible hose: Slip on a small piece of one size on to the SCWD outlets to act like a small collar, then slip the next size hose over that, clamping it securely. Metal hose clamps can be used in dry areas, but not if the connections are submerged.

You will SEE here that he specifically says AND points to a link from Danner which says DOUBLE the outlet size for best flow.

I REALLY think people should at least TRY to do research BEFORE making comments.
__________________
waynotcars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 11:24 PM   #20
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar


 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,682
I actually did call Danner Mfg today, and what they told me is specifically that the flow output requirement stating 1-1/2" diameter is not related to the output nozzle size, and that you do indeed need to use 1-1/2" diameter not 3/4" tubing that matches the output nozzle.
__________________

__________________
My tanks: 120 Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber, 60 Reef Pond w/floating Algae Scrubber, 40 Breeder Reef w/L2 UAS Tester Algae Scrubber
I maintain: 144 SW Reef w/L2 Algae Scrubber | 200 SW Reef w/L4 Algae Scrubber
Special knowledge: Algae Scrubbers, Acrylic Fabrication
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
flow, flow rate

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rate of flow under gravity Silent Night General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 2 07-27-2010 02:14 AM
Flow rate Johno757 Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 5 02-27-2008 12:14 AM
Flow Rate Jimailer General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 3 08-05-2005 02:30 AM
Flow rate. perrymedik Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 3 07-16-2004 08:40 PM
Flow Rate Holokai Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 4 04-29-2004 10:42 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.