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Old 12-31-2015, 03:53 PM   #1
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New configuration.....any thoughts?

For quite some time I have thought that many filtration configurations are backwards, often placing the biological filtration section before the chemical section.
In that configuration it puts a greater burden on the biological capabilities and in the end produces more nitrate as the end result of the nitrification process.

By doing as much chemical filtration as possible first, via chemical media and skimming, we reduce the amount of organic substances presented to the biological portion and the net end result is a lower nitrate level.


So in order to achieve that as much as possible I am going to re-configure my set-up as follows.



(red arrows show water flow)
so the water flows from the display through socks and is further filtered for particulates via a mag 5 fitted with a micron sleeve from the magnum 350.
then up through a foam block and a layer of Matrix carbon. That is a separate container inside of the main sump container.

Then it is pumped to the skimmer and reactors, all of which have the effluent going into the secondary sump.
The effluent from the skimmer will flow in from the bottom and the effluent from the reactors will enter through the top via a drip set-up filtering through a layer of pumice blocks.

From there it returns back to the main sump's return pump section.

I am hoping this will help reduce nitrate levels (even though they are undetectable, the amount of red hair algae in the refugium tells me different)
and improve the overall efficiency of the system.

Everything I need is actually already in place, all that I need to do is get another 1" bulkhead and drill a few holes, glue some PVC and done.
Any thoughts?
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:20 PM   #2
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Is the foam block necessary? Would bacteria not colonise this media also? Perhaps just the micron filter would be enough to protect the carbons porosity. Assuming the carbon is not already in some kind of media (not familiar with salt water setups).




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Old 12-31-2015, 04:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban07 View Post
Is the foam block necessary? Would bacteria not colonise this media also? Perhaps just the micron filter would be enough to protect the carbons porosity. Assuming the carbon is not already in some kind of media (not familiar with salt water setups).




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true, I may just forgo the foam there and just use plastic mesh. Plastic cross-stitch fabric works perfect for these applications and can be found in various "pore" sizes.
If it still allows more junk through than desired I can always add the foam or similar media.

the carbon I'm considering using is Seachem's Matrix carbon which has a uniform spherical shape. I'm just going to pour it loose in a layer an inch or two thick in that section. That section is about 16"Lx6"W.
My hope is that I can achieve some degree of "percolation" in the carbon layer from the up-flow of water through it, similar to using it in a reactor.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by PB_Smith View Post
true, I may just forgo the foam there and just use plastic mesh. Plastic cross-stitch fabric works perfect for these applications and can be found in various "pore" sizes.
If it still allows more junk through than desired I can always add the foam or similar media.

the carbon I'm considering using is Seachem's Matrix carbon which has a uniform spherical shape. I'm just going to pour it loose in a layer an inch or two thick in that section. That section is about 16"Lx6"W.
My hope is that I can achieve some degree of "percolation" in the carbon layer from the up-flow of water through it, similar to using it in a reactor.

Sounds like a good idea. 👍


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Old 12-31-2015, 07:09 PM   #5
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thanks


one other thing is that I had originally set up the second sump container for my 30 gallon, but never got around to setting it up.
I can easily tie it into the sump and join it to the complete system.


it is in the room used as an office and my desk/computer is right in between the two;





the chiller sits under the desk where the computer is shown on top, the second sump is under where the 30 gallon would go.
The only thing out of the whole mess that can be seen is the skimmer, but that is because it's six feet tall....LOL

all the plumbing will run around/under the desk with the only area visible being where the skimmer is located.

I'm very seriously considering setting it up and trying an octopus in the 30 gallon.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:33 AM   #6
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Well it took a couple of days, but I got it switched around.
Made a few changes. Have the Mag 5 still pulling through the micron sleeve, but it is also feeding the skimmer. took the Sicce 300gph pump and made a DIY carbon "canister" from 2" PVC and have the water being pulled through that and then sent to the GFO and Purigen reactors. I haven't routed the effluent from the reactors to the second sump yet. Had a few mishaps along the way.


So as you can see from my illustration I have a display refugium on top of the main display. Well on Sunday I began working on everything and needed to redo the return plumbing as it had a restriction that was getting clogged with stomatella snails, so I had turned it off before going to bed, don't need another flood at 2 am.
Worked Sunday night until around 9:30 I realized I was about 2' short of 1" hose....., so I clean up and go to bed.

Get up Monday morning, notice the refugium is a little "chilly" so I turn the pump that feeds it on and it all flows and drains nicely so I go to make coffee and stuff. I walk back into the room to the sound of water splashing!!!

Snails plugged the drain again and about 3-4 gallons of water have overflowed the refugium!!!!!!!

So I mop up and get everything squared away and all the plumbing fixed up, new drain set-up for the refugium, clean the outside of the tank so it has that polished look/feel and I'm done.



BUT WAIT! There's more.........

So I'm checking things out and still not happy with the amount of splashing from the drain into the socks, so I shut the drain valve and stick my head under the stand to fix it.......

then about 45 seconds later I start getting a shower of salt water all over my head and back!!!!!!!!

I forgot to turn off the return pump....DOH!!!!!!!!

So, after another round of cleaning, mopping and cursing I am about 90% done and just a few tweaks to fine tune stuff.

Thank goodness the room the tank is in is the only one with tile instead of carpet.

I managed to segregate the chemical portions from the biological portions with water being processed by the chemical filtration first then on to bio.
Was able to add another heater to the second sump so that will help alleviate the burden of keeping the tank warm with only one heater.
Also gained about 12 gallons of water capacity for the system, so that's good.



still being lazy with the pics.......sorry.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB_Smith View Post
Well it took a couple of days, but I got it switched around.
Made a few changes. Have the Mag 5 still pulling through the micron sleeve, but it is also feeding the skimmer. took the Sicce 300gph pump and made a DIY carbon "canister" from 2" PVC and have the water being pulled through that and then sent to the GFO and Purigen reactors. I haven't routed the effluent from the reactors to the second sump yet. Had a few mishaps along the way.


So as you can see from my illustration I have a display refugium on top of the main display. Well on Sunday I began working on everything and needed to redo the return plumbing as it had a restriction that was getting clogged with stomatella snails, so I had turned it off before going to bed, don't need another flood at 2 am.
Worked Sunday night until around 9:30 I realized I was about 2' short of 1" hose....., so I clean up and go to bed.

Get up Monday morning, notice the refugium is a little "chilly" so I turn the pump that feeds it on and it all flows and drains nicely so I go to make coffee and stuff. I walk back into the room to the sound of water splashing!!!

Snails plugged the drain again and about 3-4 gallons of water have overflowed the refugium!!!!!!!

So I mop up and get everything squared away and all the plumbing fixed up, new drain set-up for the refugium, clean the outside of the tank so it has that polished look/feel and I'm done.



BUT WAIT! There's more.........

So I'm checking things out and still not happy with the amount of splashing from the drain into the socks, so I shut the drain valve and stick my head under the stand to fix it.......

then about 45 seconds later I start getting a shower of salt water all over my head and back!!!!!!!!

I forgot to turn off the return pump....DOH!!!!!!!!

So, after another round of cleaning, mopping and cursing I am about 90% done and just a few tweaks to fine tune stuff.

Thank goodness the room the tank is in is the only one with tile instead of carpet.

I managed to segregate the chemical portions from the biological portions with water being processed by the chemical filtration first then on to bio.
Was able to add another heater to the second sump so that will help alleviate the burden of keeping the tank warm with only one heater.
Also gained about 12 gallons of water capacity for the system, so that's good.



still being lazy with the pics.......sorry.

Haha. At least it's not just me that does things like that. Some of the saltwater referenced are out of my scope so I'm not much use here. Glad you managed to get it sorted and I hope the new setup works out for you.


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Old 01-12-2016, 11:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB_Smith View Post
Well it took a couple of days, but I got it switched around.
Made a few changes. Have the Mag 5 still pulling through the micron sleeve, but it is also feeding the skimmer. took the Sicce 300gph pump and made a DIY carbon "canister" from 2" PVC and have the water being pulled through that and then sent to the GFO and Purigen reactors. I haven't routed the effluent from the reactors to the second sump yet. Had a few mishaps along the way.


So as you can see from my illustration I have a display refugium on top of the main display. Well on Sunday I began working on everything and needed to redo the return plumbing as it had a restriction that was getting clogged with stomatella snails, so I had turned it off before going to bed, don't need another flood at 2 am.
Worked Sunday night until around 9:30 I realized I was about 2' short of 1" hose....., so I clean up and go to bed.

Get up Monday morning, notice the refugium is a little "chilly" so I turn the pump that feeds it on and it all flows and drains nicely so I go to make coffee and stuff. I walk back into the room to the sound of water splashing!!!

Snails plugged the drain again and about 3-4 gallons of water have overflowed the refugium!!!!!!!

So I mop up and get everything squared away and all the plumbing fixed up, new drain set-up for the refugium, clean the outside of the tank so it has that polished look/feel and I'm done.



BUT WAIT! There's more.........

So I'm checking things out and still not happy with the amount of splashing from the drain into the socks, so I shut the drain valve and stick my head under the stand to fix it.......

then about 45 seconds later I start getting a shower of salt water all over my head and back!!!!!!!!

I forgot to turn off the return pump....DOH!!!!!!!!

So, after another round of cleaning, mopping and cursing I am about 90% done and just a few tweaks to fine tune stuff.

Thank goodness the room the tank is in is the only one with tile instead of carpet.

I managed to segregate the chemical portions from the biological portions with water being processed by the chemical filtration first then on to bio.
Was able to add another heater to the second sump so that will help alleviate the burden of keeping the tank warm with only one heater.
Also gained about 12 gallons of water capacity for the system, so that's good.



still being lazy with the pics.......sorry.

Haha. I'm glad it's not just me that goes things like that! Im out of my league here in the saltwater section so I won't be much use. Glad you got it sorted and hope the new setup works out.


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Old 01-13-2016, 05:18 PM   #9
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one other big bonus, I was able to make the system essentially silent.
no more sound of running water 24/7, the wife is happy.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:31 PM   #10
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Nice set up!
If I wasn't knee deep breeding I would be right there with you.
I have never run a sump I haven't modified.
The concept of changing order to reduce nitrates is interesting to me to say the least.
Will/is their any way you can note a difference.
Even something as simple as how much nitrates the filter used to generate.
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