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Old 03-25-2011, 09:43 PM   #61
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I looked into that article again, especially the references, and was suprised. One of the articles actually states right in the abstract that allicin (extract from garlic) actually killed ich.

Here are his refrences and my responses to them:

Colorni, Angelo, Rami Avtalion, Wayne Knibb, Evelyn Berger, Barbara Colorni, & Bracha Timan. 1998. "Histopathology of sea bass (Dicentrarchus labrax) experimentally infected with Mycobacterium marinum and treated with streptomycin and garlic (Allium sativum) extract." Aquaculture 160(1998)1-17.
-This study only shows that Mycobacterium marinum is not cured by allicin. This does not apply to garlic’s anti-parasitic properties since this is a bacteria.

Ashdown, Denise & Gary Violetta. 2004. "Using Garlic as an Appetite Stimulant in Sand Tiger Sharks (Carcharias taurus)." Drum & Croaker, January 2004, Volume 35, pages 59-63.
-This study discusses garlic’s use as an appetite stimulant, which doesn’t speak to its anti-parasitic properties.

Buchmann, K., P. B. Jensen, & K. D. Kruse. 2003. "Effects of Sodium Percarbonate and Garlic Extract on Ichthyophthirius multifiliis Theronts and Tomocysts: In Vitro Experiments." North American Journal of Aquaculture, Volume 65, Number 1, pages 21-24, 2003.
Abstract excerpt:
“Garlic extract had no effect in low amounts (30 mg/L), but at high concentrations (117 and 570 mg/L) it killed the tomocysts within 24 h.”
-This article shows that garlic can actually kill Ich tomocysts, although more garlic is required to be effective compared to malachite green.

Colorni, Angelo & Peter Burgess. 1997. "Cryptocaryon irritans Brown 1951, the cause of 'white spot disease' in marine fish: an update." Aquarium Sciences and Conservation, volume 1, pages 217-238.
-This article’s abstract and introduction did not mention garlic.

Fairfield, Terry. 1996. "Garlic & Your Aquarium: A Preliminary report on Allium sativum and fishkeeping." Aquarium Fish Magazine, January 1996, pages 79-83.
-This is not primary scientific research, and therefore scientifically cannot be considered as proof/disproof or support/lack of support of anything.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:45 PM   #62
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For those interested in the actual scientific studies here are my references for the article I wrote that was published in the April 2011 issue if Aquarium Fish International magazine.

Ankri, S., and D. Mirelman. 2001. “Antimicrobial properties of allicin from garlic.” Microbes and Infection 2:125-129

Boxaspen, K., and J.C. Holm. 1992. “New biocides used against sea lice compared to organo-phosphorous compounds.” European Aquaculture Society

Coppi, A., M. Cabinian, D. Mirelman, and P. Sinnis. 2006. “Antimalarial Activity of Allicin, a Biologically Active Compound from Garlic Cloves.” Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy 5:1731-1737

D.L.N. 1998. “Allicin, one of the active principles of garlic, inhibits the growth of protozoan parasites.” Chemtech 4:45

Holden, C. 1997. “Fighting Parasites With Garlic.” Science. 5338:581

Soko, C. K., and D.E. Barker. 2004. “Efficacy of crushed garlic and lemon juice as bio-product treatments for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (‘ich’) infections among juvenile Nile tilapia, Oreochromis niloticus.” Aquaculture Association of Canada 9:108-110
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:05 AM   #63
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you could use the other stuff and mix it together for feeding, like when changing foods you should mix it together gradually before you start to feed them exclusively the new product.
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:08 AM   #64
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so if you dont have ich or other paresites, why use garlic, especially with other meds that work? it sounds more like a preventative
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:40 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokuzachi View Post
My picky fish are just picky.

There's nothing they will reliably eat. One day they'll take Hikary micro wafers, the next day they spit them out. Same for NLS Thera + A, and Ocean Nutrition food which IMO is also very good. I have to keep quite the cleanup crew because I never know when they're going to pass on what I'm feeding them.
Honestly, I think this is because you are feeding too many kinds of food. People make that mistake with dogs - feed them all sorts of crap and then wonder why they won't eat their dog food. I used to work with someone who cooked meals for her dog, because it wouldn't eat dog food. How ridiculous. That dog would have scarfed down the dog food if it was hungry enough. Just like dogs, fish will eat when they are hungry enough. Granted, some fish will starve to death rather than eat food they don't want, but that's rare.

Chances are if you only fed them one kind of STAPLE food, they would eagerly eat it every time you fed them.



Doogle - I believe in prevention. Regardless of whether garlic kills parasites, it boosts the immune system.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:39 AM   #66
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so do i... any way i have noticed an increase in color, size, and general liveliness, sice i have been feeding a variety. i look at the ingredients in my fish food, and get them stuff that says whole halibut, krill or whatever else, and dont buy the crap that is full of meal,filler, or other unnatural by-products,hat would not be in a fish's diet naturally. here is a example -omega one-super veggie=Whole kelp,Spirulina,Whole Salmon,Halibut,seafood mix((krill,Whole Herring,and shrimp))wheat flour,wheat gluten,lecithin, blah, blah,vitamins, niacin, and a preservative...most of these are typical. i dont like seeing fish meal, and stuff like that, but in the real world where fish are eating algae, other fish, and plants they are not eating the stuff we buy, and they get bigger and more colorful and lively.i try to replicate a natural diet, but to be fair it can be difficult, i want the best i can get. science has come a long way, and a long way from what is natural, too.
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:27 AM   #67
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I too use Omega - One a lot with great results.

I also agree with Melosu and her observation 100 %.
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:54 AM   #68
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also when i said variety, i mean more freeze-dried and frozen foods, and seaweed,spirulina, krill,spinach, romaine,zuchini,shrimp.not just flakes and pellets...
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Old 03-26-2011, 06:07 AM   #69
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i could add garlic cloves to food and get the same results. kordon's ich attack is a herbal medicant,(smells like garlic, hmm) and you have to triple the dose and frequency to kill the ich...and that stuff isny cheap, where jungles ick 2 for sensitive fish works and wont stain everything(wayyyyyy cheaper),a clove of garlic or buy expensive scientificly endorsed food.not saying that it isnt worth it, you usually get what you pay for...but not always
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:58 AM   #70
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In most of NLS's foods the garlic is just an attractant (and very effective). When I was running the fish shop we had very few issues getting almost anything to eat pellets. I think the only one that didn't was a gar that was sold pretty quickly. Even the freshwater stingrays would take to it within days.

With the Thera+A it is enough to kill parasites, but its main benefit is preventative. Prevention is always the goal. Time after time people feeding it have a significantly lower frequency of ANY illnesses in any of their fish. This obviously MUST go along with high water quality.

NLS is not an expensive, scientifically endorsed food. The garlic articles are a separate issue (mainly to show the facts when people argue so intensely against it). I have seen it cure parasites a couple times, but it isn't a magical chemical free med or anything. It is more expensive per weight, but because of the quality of the food you don't have to feed as much (as mentioned previously by someone else). I think you would break even if not save a little by feeding it (depending on the size container you buy and where you get it).

I want to clarify that it is not the garlic that makes NLS above and beyond IME. The overall nutrition is where it needs to be. The goal of any diet is complete and balanced nutrition. NLS does this. IMO mixing a hodge-podge of foods is bound to not achieve this. Unless you are an animal nutritionist it is just guesswork. I want more than guesswork to keep my fish thriving for their full potential.

Again, try it. Without experiencing it you can't see what it can really do for your fish.
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