Newbie Equipment Q's
- Thread starter Flossie
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jimenezlee
Aquarium Advice Activist
Yes, it will get in the gravel and filters, specially the cysts. And actually I just found a good amount of information on this on wikipedia,
Ichthyophthirius multifiliis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and it says that filter media should be exchanged. I suppose it would be best when you no longer see signs of ich then do a good gravel cleaning and change the floss part of your filter, hopefully you have a separate sponge for bio media or another way to keep the bacteria healthy. Because both cleaning gravel thoroughly and replacing the filter media can set you back in terms of cycling, maybe when you're done you could 1st clean the gravel, wait a few days and then change the filter media.
Ichthyophthirius multifiliis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and it says that filter media should be exchanged. I suppose it would be best when you no longer see signs of ich then do a good gravel cleaning and change the floss part of your filter, hopefully you have a separate sponge for bio media or another way to keep the bacteria healthy. Because both cleaning gravel thoroughly and replacing the filter media can set you back in terms of cycling, maybe when you're done you could 1st clean the gravel, wait a few days and then change the filter media.
I wonder if they weren't sick whenever I got them? I've barley had them two weeks... got them from the same store I got guppies from that had mouth fungus.... Anywho I think they are enjoying the salt and the heater... they are more active and schooling better. I did have to do a PWC because ammo and nitrite are .25 but I added another filter ( thinking that'll help since i have pleco in there temp) and just did a 30% PWC so hopefully I can get those levels down... my poor fish! LOL I was thinking the PWCS might stress them but I figured it would be better than stress and injuries from the ammo and nitrites. I really appreciate all of y'alls help. It has helped me have some peace of mind. Im the kind of person who can't sleep if I think i'm hurting my fish... LOL
jimenezlee
Aquarium Advice Activist
btw, test your tap. Last week I found myself also doing pwcs daily for .25 ammonia until I tested the tap water... it had .25 ammonia...
ya, they probably did have the icht when you got them. Glad to hear they're doing better
ya, they probably did have the icht when you got them. Glad to hear they're doing better
dollabill420
Aquarium Advice Freak
jimenezlee said:
Does vacuuming gravel actually take the nitrifyiers out of it, or is it because you are removing their food, I assumed they couldn't be sucked off nor die quick enough before bioload increased enough to keep em goin I've wondered this for over 10 years, another opinion would be greatly appreciated, thanks
They for sure had ich, as it is a parasite that CAN NOT complete its lifecycle without host fish.
It is not caused by stress, as is commonly believed, and it can not lay dormant in your aquarium.
It is very common in fish from LFS and I've successfully treated it many times.
If using heat/salt to treat the fish for ich, it is very, very important to maintain the temperature to 86 or slightly higher, no less.
At 85 degrees, the lifecycle of ich only increases. At 86 and above, it kills it in its various lifestages.
Ich Attack by Kordon is an excellent cure, and can be used with heat and salt or by itself.
Read this AA link below to understand what ich is and how to kill it permanantly.
Freshwater Ich? Yuck!
I've had them one week... I had guppies before that that I got from petsmart and they had mouth fungus like as soon as I got them with 24 hours... I treated the tank with melafix done a PWC and waited got a betta... long story... returned him bc something was wrong... i got these tetras from petsmart and within a week noticed the ich... i think i'm DONE with petsmart fish!!! I fill like a fish failure...
Mr. Limpet
Aquarium Advice Addict
I've had them one week... I had guppies before that that I got from petsmart and they had mouth fungus like as soon as I got them with 24 hours... I treated the tank with melafix done a PWC and waited got a betta... long story... returned him bc something was wrong... i got these tetras from petsmart and within a week noticed the ich... i think i'm DONE with petsmart fish!!! I fill like a fish failure...
I agree, you should find a good local mom & pop LFS for stock. I buy supplies and equipment from Petco/Petsmart/Walmart, but never any fish stock. I'd suggest taking them back and let the tank cycle with heat and salt while you find a LFS. My 2 best LFS are 20/30 miles away (Petco <1 mile) and they QT all new stock for 10 days minimum. I trust them enough that I'll acclimate and put new fish in without any QT (it's been done
). Never had a single issue to date.You're not a fish failure, the fish you're getting at big box stores are failing you. That's on them, not you. So chin up and keep moving forward.
I agree, you should find a good local mom & pop LFS for stock. I buy supplies and equipment from Petco/Petsmart/Walmart, but never any fish stock. I'd suggest taking them back and let the tank cycle with heat and salt while you find a LFS. My 2 best LFS are 20/30 miles away (Petco <1 mile) and they QT all new stock for 10 days minimum. I trust them enough that I'll acclimate and put new fish in without any QT (it's been done
Yeah I'm going to take the back... Any advice as to what to treat the pleco with ??
Mr. Limpet
Aquarium Advice Addict
My neons died whenever I raised the temp to 86
That's why I like using Quick Cure, no need to cook the fish at 86+ degrees. As for the pleco, if it's got ick too then just keep the salt/heat going until it's better and by that time, you'll find a good LFS that will sell you good stock and help you with fish keeping, rather than how much they can make off you.
jetajockey
come get me tang police!
The fish don't cook at 86. There's plenty of 86 degree discus tanks with neons in them.
One of the active ingredients in most ich medications is formalin aka formaldehyde. Malachite green is another questionable chemical as well, it's been linked to cancer, but how much of a potential threat it is, I have no idea.
One of the active ingredients in most ich medications is formalin aka formaldehyde. Malachite green is another questionable chemical as well, it's been linked to cancer, but how much of a potential threat it is, I have no idea.
Mr. Limpet
Aquarium Advice Addict
jetajockey said:
The way I look at is, I wouldn't leave my dog in my house during the summer in high temps, why would I subject my fish to it.
As for many things used in fish keeping, the API tests have warnings more severe than Qiuck Cure. Does that mean you're gonna stop doing tests with it? Probably not is my guess.
I'll agree 100% with your final statement, whole heartedly
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jetajockey
come get me tang police!
Where you choose to leave your dog is not a valid comparison.
We aren't randomly heating up fish just to do it, its a proven safe and effective method of treating them for a parasite. Uncomfortable for them? Maybe for some, but its better than having ICH.
As far as comparing the API test chems to the Quick cure chems, another non comparison. First off, you don't expose your fish to the API test chems.
Second, malachite green has a pretty serious track record. A little google can do good
New safety alert as cancer dye is found in salmon - Times Online
There's a reason why they don't allow it into food fish. Granted, we aren't eating our aquarium fish, but we do stick our hands in their tanks an awful lot don't we?
I could spend more time proving that salt/heat is a way more safe and effective treatment than formalin/malachite green, but I really don't want to waste my time regurgitating what a simple search will reveal.
We aren't randomly heating up fish just to do it, its a proven safe and effective method of treating them for a parasite. Uncomfortable for them? Maybe for some, but its better than having ICH.
As far as comparing the API test chems to the Quick cure chems, another non comparison. First off, you don't expose your fish to the API test chems.
Second, malachite green has a pretty serious track record. A little google can do good
New safety alert as cancer dye is found in salmon - Times Online
There's a reason why they don't allow it into food fish. Granted, we aren't eating our aquarium fish, but we do stick our hands in their tanks an awful lot don't we?
I could spend more time proving that salt/heat is a way more safe and effective treatment than formalin/malachite green, but I really don't want to waste my time regurgitating what a simple search will reveal.
Ashes2ashes
Aquarium Advice Regular
The way I look at is, I wouldn't leave my dog in my house during the summer in high temps, why would I subject my fish to it.
As for many things used in fish keeping, the API tests have warnings more severe than Qiuck Cure. Does that mean you're gonna stop doing tests with it? Probably not is my guess.
I'll agree 100% with your final statement, whole heartedly
The fact that I would never compare fish temps to dog temps aside, I would TOTALLY leave my dog in a warmer if not a little uncomfortable environment if it was either that or cram meds with a lot of warnings and side effects down his throat. It's not leaving them in the warm water just for the sake of doing it, you are trying to save the fish, and the meds often cause death to the fish as well. The salt/heat method of curing ich is really IME and IMO the best, safest, and fastest way. I have heard quick cure can be a good one if the salt/heat fails or if you have very very salt sensitive fish like cories in your tank, otherwise I am pretty sure salt/heat is the best way to go.
To the OP, I am sorry you are having such trouble, and I hope you are able to remedy the problem. Maybe you can purchase future fish from either hobbyist or mom and pop stores etc.. where they don't have quite the rate of diseased fish, although I do occassionally pick up critters from bigger box stores, I just QT them before adding them to my tanks. Good luck to you getting it all straightened out. - Ash
Thanks guys... I was trying the salt and heat and lost all my neons so I turned the heat down to 82 ... Bc the flames seemed very stressed... My pleco has swam up a few times for air bubbles..and I have two filters and a bubble wand. I got some API ich cure to makes sure I knock it out... I'm afraid to keep the temp up so high...
How does a QT tank work ?? How long do u leave them in it ??
How does a QT tank work ?? How long do u leave them in it ??
Flake
Aquarium Advice Addict
Mr. Limpet
Aquarium Advice Addict
So you're selective about which pet in you care gets proper treatment? Interesting notion I never considered, since I prefer treating my pets as equals and make sure any/all of them are treated with the respect and care they deserve.
So no meds ever, never ever? Does that include other products like Prime, since that too carries a (human) warning too? Well, sans inverts, baby whale and elephant nose
.As for the UK waring on malachite green? If one actually read the article, they "suspected (it) of causing cancer" with no actual proof. When it's proven, then your point would be valid.
FYI: API recommends that along with their salt, you should use API's Super Ick Cure
.Here's some info on heat/salt that might be elighting:
* Raising the temperature to 80F reduces the oxygen level in the water which can make it more difficult for the fish to breathe.
* Higher temperatures encourage the rapid growth of bacteria and fungus, putting the fish at increased risk of secondary infections.
* Higher temperatures speed up the rate at which the ich reproduces and therefore places more stress on an already vulnerable fish population.
* Coldwater fish such as goldfish will be put under more stress by a tropical-level temperature.
* Such a high level of salt places osmotic stress on the fish as well as the ich tomites, so if the fish is badly infested and therefore already struggling to control its osmoregulation - then this might be enough to kill it.
* There is no real evidence that darkness inhibits cilliated protozoans.
Flossie:
Good call on the ick cure IMO, since the stress caused by heat/salt could certainly be more debilitating.
Good luck!
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