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Old 05-22-2011, 03:38 AM   #41
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I'm just throwing out my experience here nothing set in stone, but I had an ich outbreak in my tank about a month ago. I went to petsmart and picked up some API liquid ich treatment. I have a loach so I halved the dosage but continued treatment for twice as long. it seemed that the spots became more prevalent throughout the whole treatment so I stopped using the meds and switched to higher temp/API salt and it cleared up right away and I have not seen signs of it again=) I now prefer the alternative to medication because it turned all my decorations and tubing in the take a turquoise hue.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:35 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Mr. Limpet View Post
So you're selective about which pet in you care gets proper treatment? Interesting notion I never considered, since I prefer treating my pets as equals and make sure any/all of them are treated with the respect and care they deserve.
Sorry, but my dog stays outside when its 10 degrees or 100 degrees...


Quote:
So no meds ever, never ever? Does that include other products like Prime, since that too carries a (human) warning too? Well, sans inverts, baby whale and elephant nose .
Prime isn't a med... I refuse to use meds as well.
Quote:
As for the UK waring on malachite green? If one actually read the article, they "suspected (it) of causing cancer" with no actual proof. When it's proven, then your point would be valid.
If they suspect it, that's good enough for me
Quote:
FYI: API recommends that along with their salt, you should use API's Super Ick Cure .
Companies also recommend replacing filter cartridges every so often too... but I've seen you explicity recommend against that...

Quote:
Here's some info on heat/salt that might be elighting:

* Raising the temperature to 80F reduces the oxygen level in the water which can make it more difficult for the fish to breathe.
* Higher temperatures encourage the rapid growth of bacteria and fungus, putting the fish at increased risk of secondary infections.
* Higher temperatures speed up the rate at which the ich reproduces and therefore places more stress on an already vulnerable fish population.
* Coldwater fish such as goldfish will be put under more stress by a tropical-level temperature.
* Such a high level of salt places osmotic stress on the fish as well as the ich tomites, so if the fish is badly infested and therefore already struggling to control its osmoregulation - then this might be enough to kill it.
* There is no real evidence that darkness inhibits cilliated protozoans.
It's a known fact that there is less dissolved oxygen in higher temps... that's why it is always recommended to increase surface agitation or add a bubbler. We're not talking about goldfish, so that's not relavent. If you keep your water clean, bacterial infections shouldn't even be a consideration
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfdrookie516 View Post
Sorry, but my dog stays outside when its 10 degrees or 100 degrees...
But he's not cooped up in a sweat box, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Quote:
Prime isn't a med... I refuse to use meds as well.
It is of sorts, since it medicates (more or less) the water so it's safe for your fish and it's unsafe for humans. That was the point, what is, isn't safe for humans but OK for fish.

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If they suspect it, that's good enough for me
That's what they said about eggs a few years ago, they changed their minds, so go figure.

Quote:
Companies also recommend replacing filter cartridges every so often too... but I've seen you explicity recommend against that...
API also says to use their salt all the time in you tanks and I'd say 99.9% of the people here (including you) don't do that either. Yet for ick, you do, so go figure.

Quote:
It's a known fact that there is less dissolved oxygen in higher temps... that's why it is always recommended to increase surface agitation or add a bubbler. We're not talking about goldfish, so that's not relavent. If you keep your water clean, bacterial infections shouldn't even be a consideration
I agree, clean water is the first and best defense against any kind of infection, but unlike you and I, not everyone has pristine water or (in my 2 cases of ick) properly QT new arrivals.
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:50 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpet View Post
So you're selective about which pet in you care gets proper treatment? Interesting notion I never considered, since I prefer treating my pets as equals and make sure any/all of them are treated with the respect and care they deserve.

So no meds ever, never ever? Does that include other products like Prime, since that too carries a (human) warning too? Well, sans inverts, baby whale and elephant nose .

As for the UK waring on malachite green? If one actually read the article, they "suspected (it) of causing cancer" with no actual proof. When it's proven, then your point would be valid.

FYI: API recommends that along with their salt, you should use API's Super Ick Cure .

Here's some info on heat/salt that might be elighting:

* Raising the temperature to 80F reduces the oxygen level in the water which can make it more difficult for the fish to breathe.
* Higher temperatures encourage the rapid growth of bacteria and fungus, putting the fish at increased risk of secondary infections.
* Higher temperatures speed up the rate at which the ich reproduces and therefore places more stress on an already vulnerable fish population.
* Coldwater fish such as goldfish will be put under more stress by a tropical-level temperature.
* Such a high level of salt places osmotic stress on the fish as well as the ich tomites, so if the fish is badly infested and therefore already struggling to control its osmoregulation - then this might be enough to kill it.
* There is no real evidence that darkness inhibits cilliated protozoans.

Flossie:

Good call on the ick cure IMO, since the stress caused by heat/salt could certainly be more debilitating.

Good luck!
What exactly does that mean? You are running in circles and putting words in my mouth. I'm not sure if you don't understand or if you just liek to argue. As I said...if I could treat my dog by making him a bit uncomfortable instead of shoving pills down his throat I would, as I also would my fish. If meds were neccessary or called for of COURSE I would use them...nowhere in my post did I say I never use meds. I use them when called for.

Am I selective? Yes. If my house were on fire I would definitely grab my dog before I bagged all my endlers. I also let my fish eat other fish fry. I would never let my dog eat kittens. You cannot compare one to the other as they are NOT the same. As someone who works in animal rescue, is a certified vet tech, and a certified dog trainer and someone who feels called to take care of and work with animals, I can bluntly and unashamedly say that I think going without meds when you can is the best option. I won't debate this further because it's a silly argument, so I will leave you to continue pushing meds on peoples fish. In the health biz we call someone who does that a "quack". Good luck to you.

To the OP, I hope your fish are doing better. Sorry that your thread has been hijacked to people who would rather be right than have your fish survive. =/
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:57 PM   #45
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I'm still trying to figure out why we're speaking about dogs and cats rather than fish. flossie, I sent you a message.
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Flossie
Thanks guys... I was trying the salt and heat and lost all my neons so I turned the heat down to 82 ... Bc the flames seemed very stressed... My pleco has swam up a few times for air bubbles..and I have two filters and a bubble wand. I got some API ich cure to makes sure I knock it out... I'm afraid to keep the temp up so high...

How does a QT tank work ?? How long do u leave them in it ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Mac-
I'm still trying to figure out why we're speaking about dogs and cats rather than fish. flossie, I sent you a message.
I'm done, proving my point that is .

Flossie is using API ick cure, according to her post .
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Old 05-22-2011, 03:46 PM   #47
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no proof made..its a choice the OP made..
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:14 PM   #48
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I'm done, proving my point that is .

Flossie is using API ick cure, according to her post .
You proved that despite factual information and the industry standard to the contrary, you are still holding your position with nothing more than conjecture and detraction.

You can believe whatever you want, just don't think you can dole out information like the lunch lady on beef stew friday without being called on it.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In 1992 Canadian authorities determined that eating fish contaminated with malachite green posed a significant health risk.[4] Malachite green was classified a Class II Health Hazard. Due to its low manufacturing cost, malachite green is still used in certain countries with less restrictive laws for non-aquaculture purposes. In 2005, analysts in Hong Kong found traces of malachite green in eels and fish imported from China and Taiwan. In 2006 the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) detected malachite green in seafood imported from China, where the substance is also banned for use in aquaculture. In June 2007, the FDA blocked the importation of several varieties of seafood due to continued malachite green contamination.[5] The substance has been banned in the United States since 1983 in food-related applications. It is banned in the UK also.[6]
I'd rather be sticking my hand in a tank of warm salty water than a hand full of that, but hey, its your hand not mine.

It's hard to admit you're wrong sometimes, isn't it?

@ the OP, if done correctly, the salt and heat didn't kill your fish, if it did, then no one would be using the method. On the contrary, this method has been used by importers, breeders, aquaculturists, and public aquariums for decades.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:11 PM   #49
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Isn't the heat and salt treatment just like giving a saltie a freshwater bath? The parasites and diseases have a lower threshold for change in their environment then the fish does so they die the fish lives and you didn't have to chemically "rape" (excuse my French) your aquarium and throw it out of balance like chemicals would, I assume it would kill more BB with meds then a bit of salt and heat, their tough little buggers they see heat and salt switches everyday in nature I live on a river that is salt twice a day and it seems healthy enough but I bet if I dumped one bottle of chems in it wouldn't like it. +1 for nature
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:18 PM   #50
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Heat & salt seem to be the prefered cure here, I prefer using Quick Cure myself.
I agree with you, even though it doesn't seem to be preferred. To me, its more of a sure shot than the salt and I'm always nervous about raising my temp higher than 80. I understand the reasons for the salt, all natural, not as harsh and all that but maybe because I'm a nurse I prefer tried and true medications. I would hate to use salt and heat only to find that it didn't work and I've stressed my fish for nothing and then have to stress them again with a course of meds.
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