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Old 12-18-2003, 12:15 AM   #1
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quick ?... maybe

i dunno if its been done or even works, but here my

im looking to remove an hob and replace it with a sump/canister in a fw setup. in order to keep the sump size down, i thought to myself, bioballs are great and all, but what about using a rugf instead? then the sump/canister would not need to handle the bio filtration. ive seen the biowheels that are designed to work with canisters and would most likely work with a sump as well. but the whole point is to remove the giant box hanging on the back of the tank. maybe im still unsure of what all a sump is designed to do (and ive been reading and reading here for several hours)

also what is a good size sump? my main tank is a 30g long and id like to use a 10g tank i have here just taking up space. is a tower necessary? or can i make the sump all inclusive? ive had trouble finding designs w/o a 5g bucket as a tower.

tia![/b]
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:58 AM   #2
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im very confused why your refering to a sump as a sump/canister.

You can find an article in our articles are on sumps that might help explain it.

What do you mean by tower? Could you link to these designs you speak of? A 10 gal sump will be fine although I dont like small size sumps like that simply because they lose their effectivness. The sump would be below the tank and you would still need a box hanging on the back of the tank to overflow the water from the tank into the sump. THen you would have a pump in your sump to return the water to the tank via plumbing. You could attach a biowheel assembly to the return if you wanted just make sure its sized properly for the flow comming from the return pump.

IMO you will probably be just as well off going with a canister setup vs an open sump design.
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Old 12-18-2003, 02:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
im very confused why your refering to a sump as a sump/canister...IMO you will probably be just as well off going with a canister setup vs an open sump design.
sump/canister was sump OR canister sorry for the confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
What do you mean by tower? Could you link to these designs you speak of?
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=4115
http://nucalf.physics.fsu.edu/pfohl/Fish/Diy/trickle
http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/trickle-blackford.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfreek
You could attach a biowheel assembly to the return if you wanted just make sure its sized properly for the flow comming from the return pump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion
ive seen the biowheels that are designed to work with canisters and would most likely work with a sump as well. but the whole point is to remove the giant box hanging on the back of the tank.
i understand ill still have an overflow hob. my main question was, with a canister, or a sump (mechanical and heater only), could a rugf be used in place of a biowheel for biological filtration?

hope ive clarified my confusion for you =)

*EDIT*
and if you can link me to a few tank style sumps, it would be appriciated. tia
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:08 PM   #4
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i have a 10 gallon sump on my 30 gallon right now, and I understand where fishfreek's coming from as far as small sumps aren't as effective, but I think it depends on what you're trying to do with the sump determines it's effectiveness.

I keep about 8 gallons of water in my sump, which is about 26% of the display tank's capacity - for filtration, I have my overflow line drain into a filterbag that sits inside a filter basket full of floss

I keep my heater, my co2 reactor and ph probe in there as well, and use a maxijet 1000 as a return pump.

the maxijet also has an extra large strainer on it filled with filter floss, for additional filtration.

I also keep fast growing stem and floating plants in my sump, and use a small light that runs opposite the display tank so I have plants providing biological and chemical filtration 24x7

here you can see a pic of the sump, before I added the plants




I'm not sure what you mean about using a RUGF in a sump ... it's still highly prone to failure and although you're not disturbing your main tank when it comes time to clean it out, it will still be a lot of hassle to get the sump cleaned and operating again if/when the rugf fails.
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:09 PM   #5
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Your really asking about a canister vs a wet/dry filter.

http://www.vafishfreek.com/gallery/v...me=Sump_Photos

Above is a link showing my very simple sump and plumbing. I use a 30 gal sump on my 80 gal tank.
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Old 12-18-2003, 04:17 PM   #6
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justdiy:
not a rugf IN a sump
a rugf in combination with a sump
so it would be like this:
overflow > sump (mechanical>heater>pump) > rugf in main (biological) > water travels from bottom of tank to top > repeat
by utilizing the gravel in the main as the bio filter, a wet/dry is not necessary, and the sump doesnt need to be as large

ill draw something up in p-chop as soon as i figure out how to post imgs (do i need a host?)

fishfreek:
well im not looking for a wet/dry that just seems to be all i find
ty for your link thats more what im aiming for
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:29 PM   #7
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Well really a wetdry is going to be more of a bio filter than a UGF is anyday. It also dosnt have the nasty drawback of being a mess to tear down.

You can post photos as long as they are smaller than 100KB in your message by clicking the Post Reply button (cant use quick reply to attach images unless you do have a webhost). Then below your message you will see an Add attachment button. browse to find your image and click ok then give it a description if you want and click add attachment. The script will upload your photo and refresh the page back to the posting page. You may upload up to 3 photos per post. Each smaller than 100KB. If for some reason you cant get your image below 100KB you could upload them to the photo gallery as it has a file size limit of 250KB.
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Old 12-18-2003, 08:14 PM   #8
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i 2nd that suggestion

a wet/dry (biotower) in a sump is 'way' better than a UGF or RF/UGF

1) its a lot easier to clean

2) bioballs have more surface area than gravel

3) all that water and air mixing is great for gas exchange
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:49 PM   #9
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Although they are a bit pricey, you might look at the Tidepool sumps that Marineland makes. They have a huge biowheel built in. You could also run a Pro 30 or a Pro 60 biowheel setup on the main tank or the sump. You can power it with a powerhead. I have the Pro 30 hooked to a HOT Magnum on my FW 55g and it works great.
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Old 12-19-2003, 04:41 PM   #10
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ok so i think ill go canister/biowheel or custom sump w/ biotower or biowheel similar to the tidepool2. so my next question is... how many gallons of bioballs per gallons of water in a fw tank. ive only seen one place that specified and they said 1 gallon of bioballs would be enough for a 45 gallon fw tank. they were lee's biopinballs. this about average?
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