Re-sealing an 37 gallon

[spoonman]

It cures different in Canada, eh?

 

[InfernoST]

It cures different in Canada, eh?

Must be the air.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Easy guys, it's nothing personal, everyone has different opinions - I think we've got all viewpoints covered so I think we can drop the 'safe curing time' discussion part of this thread.

 

[BillD]

As far as misinforming people, I think not, I've been dealing with silicones for over 20 years and have never had a problem when I used the correct silicone for the correct application. I went to the manufacturer for it because it is what they use and is specifically designed for bonding and sealing glass aquariums which can handle the stress of all the water. Most importantly no matter what is said if you don't install the silicone properly it doesn't matter if you wait 24 hrs or 24 days it's still going to leak.
.

I'm curious as to the "specially designed for bonding and sealing glass aquariums" part. Is this on the label (I have not seen Perfecto brand silicone)? Since most silicones are rebranded GE or Dow silicones, regardless of what the label says ( I would be willing to bet that neither AGA or Perfecto manufacture silicone), it is a safe bet that they are pretty much the same in terms of cure. I have yet to use any silicone that doesn't still have a strong vinegar smell after 24 hours. It would be safe to say also that it would be possible, or even likely that the bead could be much thicker than 5mm (1/5"). The layer between bonded sections is in fact thinner and would cure more quickly than the bead. So, I would never advise anyone to wait only 24 hours, especially since I have no idea how thick a bead they have put on. This is where I have a problem, with making general statements. GE Silicone I for windows and doors says not suitable for aquariums on it. This is not because it is toxic, but rather to negate liability. It also says not to be used below water, or in marine applications. The tubes I use also say this, but in addition say "ideal for aquariums". Sounds like a contradiction in terms, except that the vast majority of silicone is not used for aquariums, but in the construction trades as a caulk. This was it's original purpose. A local stumbled onto the idea of using it to stick 5 pieces of glass together to make an aquarium, back in the late 50s. He and 2 others went on to found Crystal Aquarium.
I have to agree that if the silicone is not applied correctly, cure time will not be an issue. I have not used GE I because I have been able to get the house brands for less. The first tank I built back in the mid 60s was done with Dow silicone. It is still in use today with the original silicone bonding it together.
As far as curing time being different in Canada, I can't say, as all the silicone I have used comes from the US.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'll second the vinegar smell, the 37 still stunk 2 days later, though it was not very detectable by the 3rd day.

FYI re-stripped the seals yesterday (Thurs) and it's a good thing - seals were way too thin. Gonna give it another go tomorrow.

Getting into this possibly as a money-making hobby, I found a 125 on craigslist for $50 / best offer, back pane is cracked and he just decided to buy a new one. I wonder how much the glass would cost and how much of a fit the wife would pitch if I got it.

 

[InfernoST]

I'm curious as to the "specially designed for bonding and sealing glass aquariums" part. Is this on the label (I have not seen Perfecto brand silicone)? Since most silicones are rebranded GE or Dow silicones, regardless of what the label says ( I would be willing to bet that neither AGA or Perfecto manufacture silicone), it is a safe bet that they are pretty much the same in terms of cure. I have yet to use any silicone that doesn't still have a strong vinegar smell after 24 hours. It would be safe to say also that it would be possible, or even likely that the bead could be much thicker than 5mm (1/5"). The layer between bonded sections is in fact thinner and would cure more quickly than the bead. So, I would never advise anyone to wait only 24 hours, especially since I have no idea how thick a bead they have put on. This is where I have a problem, with making general statements. GE Silicone I for windows and doors says not suitable for aquariums on it. This is not because it is toxic, but rather to negate liability. It also says not to be used below water, or in marine applications. The tubes I use also say this, but in addition say "ideal for aquariums". Sounds like a contradiction in terms, except that the vast majority of silicone is not used for aquariums, but in the construction trades as a caulk. This was it's original purpose. A local stumbled onto the idea of using it to stick 5 pieces of glass together to make an aquarium, back in the late 50s. He and 2 others went on to found Crystal Aquarium.
I have to agree that if the silicone is not applied correctly, cure time will not be an issue. I have not used GE I because I have been able to get the house brands for less. The first tank I built back in the mid 60s was done with Dow silicone. It is still in use today with the original silicone bonding it together.
As far as curing time being different in Canada, I can't say, as all the silicone I have used comes from the US.

Boy you don't give up do you. You are probably correct and they more than likely outsource it with strict specifications/requirements which must be met as does the company I work for with some of their equipment. It's a common practice and doesn't mean if DOW makes silicone for 10 different companies that they are all exactly the same formula. IMO I would spend the extra money (It's not a wallet buster by any means and isn't the area worth skimping on, If you want to really save money build a sump, reef lighting, canopies, stands, or repairing a broken tank etc where you will really see and feel the savings not the couple of bucks on tube of silicone.) just buy the silicone specifically for aquarium use and use it, you'll sleep better I know I do.

Floyd, keep us updated on your progress. Looking forward to seeing it filled with fish soon.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm going to END this feud by quoting EXACTLY what is on the box and tube for the ALL-GLASS AQUARIUM brand 100% SILICONE AQUARIUM SEALANT. They're a aquarium maker. So they know their fecal matter.

QUOTE:

STEP 1-5: empty, dry, razor old silcone, clean with alcohol, cut tube, apply, yada yada...

Step 6: To achieve a final smooth seal use a flat tool and a dry paper towel to remove excess sealant within five minutes. Any addition excess of the glass can be carefully trimmed after 24 hours, but be sure not to cut into the seal. When finished recap cartridge immediately. All-Glass 100% silicone aquarium sealant cures in five minutes and fully bonds within 24 hours. To ensure a leak-proof seal, allow at least 48 hours before filling the aquarium with water.

END QUOTE

That's all-glass saying that and I'm sure they've done their testing to cover their behind.

I'm with InfernoST (what does the ST stand for by the way?) that it probably doesn't matter if you wait 24 hours or 24 days, once it's bonded it's either going to leak or not.

I'm with BillD that cure time is a function of thickness of the bead, that make perfect sense, scientifically speaking, and I'm an engineer, so I know my frakkin science man! I'm sure it BONDS fine in 24, but there's still probably some residual acetic acid over time, which I'm sure 90% is release by 24 hours and 95% by 48, and by day 5 it is probably 99% or something like that. So waiting an extra day or 3 past the recommended 48 hours before filling AGA suggest is probably not a bad idea.

So you're both right! Let's move on from the cure time discussion before a mod comes in and throws a penalty flag for unnecessary post roughness.

I'm going to seal up the tank today so wish me skill (luck is not a factor). I might try the blue painter's tape idea and warm soapy water method this time and see how that goes too...

 

[InfernoST]

InfernoST is the RC truck made by Kyosho and ST=Stadium Truck. When I couldn't get a username that was accepted back in the days when AOL & Compuserve were the places to be, I looked up and saw my truck on the shelf and typed in the name and it stuck. Since then I have never changed it. I was thinking about it though.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I got my name the same way, and it was way back during the BBS days when my 9600 baud modem was the bomb. I remember this one online game called Dominion and I rocked at it.

I used to watch Johnny Carson all the time and hence my username. I should d/l an icon of him wearing his flannel hat & jacket for my avatar...done! Why isn't it showing up though? It must have to be approved...

 

[InfernoST]

You have to reduce the size of the avatar quite a bit otherwise it wont be accepted, your file is probably to large.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What the ?%$@#%$ am I doing wrong??

I just attempted sealing it up again and when I got all done, removed blue tape, etc, and checked everything over, I found little air bubbles along the vertical seams. So I razored it all off immediately. How do you avoid the little bubbles? The AGA brand says to run the bead in front of the nozzle, but that's near impossible when you're using a caulking gun. I am really frustrated if you can't tell.

 

[mfdrookie516]

ahhh dont get frustrated... that stuff happens. just try again, make sure you keep the silicone almost too goopy in front of the tube, push it in to the seam. once you get done, go over the bead with a wedge to make a consistant bead... try that, thats about the only thing i could think of

 

[InfernoST]

lay the bead down then stick your finger in warm soapy water (keep wetting your finger) and run your finger over the fresh silicone pressing into the seem then smooth it out with a couple soft passes of your wet finger then remove the tape. Notes to repair man: have a lot of paper towels on hand. Give it a go you should be fine. Oh if you feel you need more (check it before you remove the blue tape) in a spot put it on the spot while it's still fresh and press it in with your finger then re smooth it out.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I had no problem smoothing it out, only I'm not sure how the wet finger technique helps, I smoothed it out the went over it again with the wet finger. Should I do the wet finger smooth out right after running the bead?

The more I thought about it I wonder if I had a better bead the first time because the hole in the squeeze tube was smaller and I was able to run the bead in front of the tube better, because I could get a better angle on it while applying it.

I'm thinking next time that I will make sure I have the tip of the caulking tube pressed against both panes instead of hovering a little bit. I tried to make sure that I was running the caulk out in front of the direction I was going like I did the first time, I guess I have to make sure it's right up against the glass.

I'm assuming that even if there is the slightest small bubble in the caulk in between the glass joint seal and the new bead, that under water pressure that air bubble will push right through the existing seals at the joint and cause a leak. However, if there's no way the water can get to that point because the new corner seal is bonded to the glass on the sides, do I really have anything to worry about?

I have yet to find a tool that has a tight enough corner to use to make a nicely rounded bead on the vertical joints. I used over 1/2 of a 10 oz tube of caulk and the rounding tool I started to use didn't touch some of it so I had to go with my finger. Last time I used less than 1/2 of a 3 oz tube. I need a pointier tool and I haven't come across one. I had so much caulk on it this time that when I ran my finger up the seam it gooed out around to one side or the other, so I had to run it a couple of times to round it out. It looked OK (very rough on the surface, but OK) until I saw all the tiny bubbles. I found a larger bubble and tried to work it out, but it had already started to skim over and it got very messy, that's when I dropped a couple f bombs and scraped it off.

 

[InfernoST]

The warm ( as warm as you can tolerates it) soapy allows your finger glide over the top of the silicone better and leaves a smooth finish (note: you have to do it before a skin develops or all bets are off). And yes you must go slow and keep the tip pressed firmly against both panes of glass. I've found it easier to use my finger because it's easier to wipe off with a paper towel.

 

[mom2reds]

I just wanted to say good luck, these guys got me through resealing my 100 gal. tank, and i know that if i can do it then you can too.
Be sure to post pics when done.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

You have to reduce the size of the avatar quite a bit otherwise it wont be accepted, your file is probably to large.

Yay! I figured out the avatar! I was in the wrong place (profile picture) DUH.

No 3rd attempt on the 37 yet.