Refugium question

[ekean45]

Finally made good use of a crappy SeaClone protein skimmer! I turned it into a refugium - see picture below. I shortened the center tube to about 3 inches, added live sand, some tonga live rock rubble, and about 1/2 pound of Grape Caulerpa algea. I have a full spectrum T8 for lighting running lengthwise behind it. I have 3 questions as follows.

1 - Lighting: Do you keep the light for the refugium on 24 hours a day or should it be on a similar time as regular lighting for the tank (I keep my lighting on about 8 hours a day) controlled by a timer.

2 - Copepods: I've read several articles on adding copapods by seeding the refugium that can be purchased at a LFS. Has anyone had experience with this and do you think it can be done successfully with this type of setup? What have your experiences been?

3 - Pruning: Is there any particular way pruning the Caulerpa should be performed?

 

[xtra51]

Questions one: You need to keep the lights on the refugium opposite to the lights on the tank.

Question two: Cope pods would work and are good for your sump, would they be chewed up by an impeller on the way to your MD?

Question three: For Caulerpa, you do not need to worry about pruning specifically. Just take it out and leave a handful left.

Hope this helps!

 

[ekean45]

Thanks for the advice!

Couple of other things I should have mentioned in my original post. I don't have a sump set up for this tank. Everything is hang on back but I overkilled all the filtration for a 60 gallon.

Why do you suggest opposite lighting? When the tank lights are on, the refugium does not get much if any lighting since its hanging on the back. Does your suggestion assume regugium lights should be on 24/7?

Concerning the copapods, why would this setup be different with an impeller? Doesn't a "typical" refugium need to use one as well?

Thanks!

 

[xtra51]

Using opposite lighting makes for a more stable tank temp. Having them on the back is better for the copepods. Yes refugiums do use a sump pump, but the live sand bed in the refuge keeps copepods so thats where they mostly live.

 

[ekean45]

Since I don't have a sump, then I should be OK. However, I'll monitor the tank temp to see if there is an increase. The lighting I set up for the refugium is behind the tank against a wall about 6 inches away. The back of the tank has a heavy duty backing to hide the equipment from the front view of the tank.

For the copapods, I should be good - the live sand at the bottom goes up to about 1/4 inch to the top of the tube where the water is injected into the base of the refugium. It does not get disturbed below that level. The water flow movement starts at the top of the tube and moves through the live rock rubble and the caulerpa. If you look at the picture in my original post, you can see just above the top of the sand where the water is injected into the refugium from the pump in the tank.

Do you think this still sounds feasible to having a working refugium? This is the first experience I've had.

 

[xtra51]

I think that would work perfectly!

 

[MacDracor]

Just to build on what xtra51 said, having refugium lights on an opposite schedule help avoid pH swings. When the lights are off, photosynthesis shuts down, which alters the balance of O2 and CO2, changing the pH. By having the fuge on an opposite schedule, this doesn't occur, or to a much lesser extent. The temperature swings would probably not be a huge issue in such a small fuge, but certainly could factor into a large sump with high powered lights.

 

[xtra51]

Just to build on what xtra51 said, having refugium lights on an opposite schedule help avoid pH swings. When the lights are off, photosynthesis shuts down, which alters the balance of O2 and CO2, changing the pH. By having the fuge on an opposite schedule, this doesn't occur, or to a much lesser extent. The temperature swings would probably not be a huge issue in such a small fuge, but certainly could factor into a large sump with high powered lights.

Thanks for adding the PH swing, I forgot about that when I was writing this. +1 on this post!

 

[mr_X]

I really doubt this refugium will help much. It's way too small to make an impact. You might look into HOB refugiums. You could try a mesh wheel mod on the seaclone maybe to make it more efficient.
Also, the light over such a small area will probably not effect the PH either.

 

[xtra51]

I really doubt this refugium will help much. It's way too small to make an impact. You might look into HOB refugiums. You could try a mesh wheel mod on the seaclone maybe to make it more efficient.
Also, the light over such a small area will probably not effect the PH either.

I would have to respectfully disagree with you I think any size of refuge would work for any setup. The lights would make a slight PH swing. HOB refugiums would work, but he made his own DIY and didn't want to buy another.

 

[ekean45]

Mr X - For a 60 gallon tank, how do you measure what size would be adequate?

I figured I can monitor the results for a few months and see what happens.

I hope xtra51 is right - but I have read online that some people have had success using this method. If I had a larger tank (100+), I would be more inclined to agree. Additionally, I do not have a lot of extra room on this tank for anything much larger. I would love to set up a sump but due to the constraints of the location and the furniture the tank is displayed on (it is made for a 60 gallon tank), it's not possible.

 

[xtra51]

Mr X - For a 60 gallon tank, how do you measure what size would be adequate?

I figured I can monitor the results for a few months and see what happens.

I hope xtra51 is right - but I have read online that some people have had success using this method. If I had a larger tank (100+), I would be more inclined to agree. Additionally, I do not have a lot of extra room on this tank for anything much larger. I would love to set up a sump but due to the constraints of the location and the furniture the tank is displayed on (it is made for a 60 gallon tank), it's not possible.

You just need to make sure to take the plant out when it gets full. I would prune every week if it needs it. Remember, when you take the plant out, that is your nutrients and that is how you get it out of your tank.

 

[MacDracor]

I think Doug was stating that a fuge this small won't make a big impact. But I do think a tiny fuge is better than no fuge at all. If at any point you're able to plumb in another tank, it will be a lot more effective, for sure.

 

[mr_X]

I am stating that you won't even see a change in the tank or on the test kits with that tiny amount of algae, and a cup of sand. I do not think a tiny refugium is better than a working protein skimmer. If you were getting any skimmate out of that thing it's going to do more for exporting nutrients than a hand full of algae. Again, I would focus more on trying to get that skimmer to work better, or replace it all together.
As for the size of a refugium, the largest you can afford in your allotted space would be my recommendation.

I think some folks give more credit to refugiums than they deserve, in terms of nutrient export. It only takes a very tiny carbon source for algae to carry out photosynthesis, and algae growth is not a gauge on how much nutrients are in the water. Take a house plant for instance. You take a clipping from it and put it in a cup of tap water and that is enough for it to grow 2 inches and form roots.
So, if xtra51's theory is correct, then putting algae in the tank would increase the nutrient levels, if by removing the algae, you are taking it out.
Why wouldn't the larger algae plant remove even more nutrients from the water column?
The reason why it's pruned is so it doesn't go sexual, not because if you don't do this, your water will remain dirty.
As the algae colony grows larger, so is it's need for a carbon source.

 

[MacDracor]

Sorry X, I missed that he didn't have a skimmer at all. I somehow thought he'd replaced the old one.
If you do have a skimmer, then I think any fuge is better than no fuge, though the bigger the better.
If you don't have one, get one. Because a skimmer will (As X said) do more than a fuge.
Also, to build on the nutrient export idea.
As algae grows, it takes in nutrients. Some of which are not completely used up, but just stored. If it goes sexual and dies (Caleurpa is notorious for this) then all those nutrients are released back into the water at once. So, the trimming serves a dual purpose. First, it helps keep them from going sexual. Second, the nutrients stored in the plant are then moved to the trash can. As the algae recovers and grows more, it takes in more nutrients, and so on.
But remember, even the ocean has a protein skimmer. It's called a beach.

 

[ekean45]

I do have a skimmer - a Reef Octopus BH1000. The Seaclone was an old one that did not work and I had read that some people were turning them into refugiums. That's were I got the idea. I was under the impression that refugiums were good to help control nitrates, breed copapods, and that corals (which I do not yet have) love them.

 

[mr_X]

They are, but again, it's very small. For a 60 gallon tank I would want something much larger. You can breed copepods right in your display. As a matter of fact, you probably are.
I was also under the impression that you took your only skimmer and turned it into a refugium.

 

[ekean45]

Mr. X - sorry I was not clear! Love the Octopus skimmer and it does a great job. Just trying to get the best filtration for the tank on a tight budget and tight space.

 

[MacDracor]

Ok, with the new info. That helps a lot. Your little DIY fuge will probably breed pods fairly well, though the limited space will be a limiting factor on that. You'll get some nutrient export, but not much. Back to "Better than nothing" but bigger is better. This could be a good holding area for the chaeto until you have the time, space, and money to make a dedicated sump/fuge.
So, short answer, I guess, is that this refugium will not hurt anything, may help, but not a huge amount. Still, clever use of an old skimmer.