Rubber Mat - safe for aquarium?

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Linwood

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Was picking up some Black Diamond for a planted freshwater tank today, and ran across this:

Rubber Horse Stall Mat, 4 ft. x 6 ft. - Tractor Supply Co.

(If the link doesn't work I'm pasting in the description at the bottom).

The actual one I got is about 4x3.5 and $20 not this larger. It is VERY heavy rubber, doesn't look like it is foam at all, not even closed small cell, and it says vulcanized rubber.

I picked it up thinking to put it under some heavier rocks. It wouldn't form pockets of dead water (it's solid), and it's thick enough I could stack 3-4 of them and do a bit of terracing for the sand around the rocks.

But... is it aquarium safe?

From what I've read, a lot of pond liners are vulcanized rubber. I found a guide book for the NY Aquarium that says their supply lines are vulcanized rubber (amazing what Google digs up). I also think rubber bands (which I know are used in aquariums by lots of people) are vulcanized rubber, but I assume there are different types as well. I found some very hard reading at the FDA on maximum vulcanization components of certain types but obviously don't know what's in this.

I see a lot of "yes" and "no" elsewhere on forums but never with a reason.

I thought I'd cut a piece off and dunk in a drinking glass for a while to see if I see any oil on top or other effects, but....

Anyone have any idea?

To me this looked much better than egg crate, besides being more protection, it's solid, so no anaerobic pockets of trapped sand/water, stacks better, and was solid black (and I'm using black substrate).

----

Description:

Give your horses the protection and comfort they deserve with the 4 ft. x 6 ft. Rubber Horse Stall Mat. These mats are the perfect balance of cushion and durability for your horses. They promote good hoof and joint health for horses, and cushion allows you to save on bedding, reducing waste and producing a more comfortable environment for your horses.

Diamond plate top for maximum skid resistance

Easier waste handling lets you use much less bedding

Unique grooved bottom specifically designed for equine use provides the perfect combination of comfort and support while promoting good hoof and joint health

Vulcanized for maximum strength and long life

Each mat weighs 100 lb.

Full 10 Year warranty
 
I wouldn't put it in the actual aquarium, i use a similar material under the tank for auto leveling and overall piece of mind.

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I wouldn't put it in the actual aquarium, i use a similar material under the tank for auto leveling and overall piece of mind.

This one has trim, so I understand only wood under it (Marineland says otherwise warranty voided, though by making the stand I probably did that anyway).

But is your recommendation just being cautious (because you don't know it is safe), or because you know something unsafe about it?

Frankly I bought it first, then started to wonder, so I am not arguing for it, just so much as trying to determine if there's a known issue, or just that it is not known to be safe.

PS. So far in a very clean glass of water there's no oil slick, but that's all of about 3 hours.
 
This one has trim, so I understand only wood under it (Marineland says otherwise warranty voided, though by making the stand I probably did that anyway).



But is your recommendation just being cautious (because you don't know it is safe), or because you know something unsafe about it?



Frankly I bought it first, then started to wonder, so I am not arguing for it, just so much as trying to determine if there's a known issue, or just that it is not known to be safe.



PS. So far in a very clean glass of water there's no oil slick, but that's all of about 3 hours.


I would err on the side of caution because finding out too late that it is not suitable may result in sick/dying fish and a tank rebuild.
I searched for food grade silicone mats and found several at the top of this page (with the assumption that if it is food grade then it is okay for your fish): http://m.aliexpress.com/search.htm?...shippingCountry=US&viewtype=1&bigSaleSwitch=y
Perhaps something along these lines would be a safer alternative.
 
Well, I looked, I thought, I google'd, I wrote to Tractor Supply (no answer)...

I can find nothing useful. Interestingly I can also find almost no cases of types of rubber which are explicitly not safe, either (I had no idea vulcanized rubber is part of many chewing gums).

Lot's of people say "I wouldn't since I don't know it is safe".

They are wise. But someone has to go first, so there's now a slightly terraced layer of this under my substrate and the tank is filling.

6 months from now if I haven't posted, someone remind me, and either I'll tell you "don't do that" or "nothing bad happened".

Someone has to volunteer to do stupid things to know if they are...

It's like the guy eating the first oyster. I don't like sea food so I'll do this first.

PS. I still have a piece floating in clear water in a glass on my table. If I start seeing a film or getting an odor or taste (yes, I have actually tasted the water) it wouldn't be all that hard to pull it out for the next few days (filling a few drops at a time from an RODI filter).
 
Good luck. Was the idea to use it to displace the weight of the rocks? I think most use eggcrate/light diffusers for that.


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Good luck. Was the idea to use it to displace the weight of the rocks? I think most use eggcrate/light diffusers for that.

Protect the glass, spread the weight a bit, I also wanted a bit more height (this raised the rocks about 1" by using two layers, terraced).

Eggcrate wouldn't raise it much. I read all the discussion about whether the dead space in egg crate is good or bad, and thought something solid meant I didn't have to figure out whether it was an issue. Also, it's all black sand, and if any of the eggcrate showed (I can only find white at Home Depot) it would be ugly. The mat is solid black.

If this works though, one could build really good terraces with it, it's nicely thick, very heavy so no floating, and it's almost impossible to slide around either on the glass or each other once placed.
 
I cut up 6 2x2 squares and put them under the 4 corners and middle front and back.. I've had a few tanks fail recently, I think it has something to do with the old apt I live in and the deflection in the floors.. nothing is level and in order to level my tanks I literally have to shim the front left corner over an inch. This leaves lots of opportunity for warping/cracking a tank.. another issue I've addressed with this is the "jurassic park" factor. When the glass of water tremors from the t rex, that's my tanks when my big body comes stomping by...

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I get it geesh, i was just explaing, don't put the rubber in your tank, it will probably result in tradgedy. No need to reinvent the wheel here, Google cichlid tanks or read threads here. What about sheets of pvc? Azek brand at home depot is cheaper than the mat..

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Well, I have some news.

I had left a portion of it soaking in a glass of water to see if it ever gave off an oily film, or odor. It did neither.

However, my new tank for reasons still unclear (but I think related to Osmocote under the substrate) has too much ammonia, way more than I added to start the cycle. So I went back and tested this glass of water... it does have about 0.25 ppm ammonia (this is with about a 1/2 sq in piece of carpet in about a cup of water, so at least by eye this is more carpet-to-water ratio than the tank).

I do not think this is enough to be contributing to my problem, but it is probably enough to raise some concern that it leaches ammonia. That little by itself in a planted tank (or even cycled unplanted) would do no harm, but that it exists at all is reason for concern that it is leaching something.

By the way, I never heard back from TSC at all.

I don't know that i will tear it apart to remove at this point, but I think I would say the experiment failed and it is not a good idea (feel free to post "I told you so" :) ).

I may end up tearing it apart anyway -- I'm over 8ppm Ammonia and rising. I am running a couple pounds of Zeolite in a HOB to try to bring it down, and making some water for a partial water change, but if it is the Osmocote+ doing it, then it's going to keep doing it for weeks and I just plain need to start over, I think. That's another whole story, but may be an opportunity to remove the tank (and correct a few other errors at the same time).
 
That's a bummer, tearing down planted tanks sucks.. trust me;) I hope it balances out for ya.

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That's a bummer, tearing down planted tanks sucks.. trust me;) I hope it balances out for ya.

Thanks. I really don't think this is my real issue. I'm getting huge amounts of ammonia, this looks like tiny amounts. Maybe I just plain screwed up in my initial dosing for a fishless cycle. But I'm worried it is something else.

But there's no animals in the tank.
 
Though the rubber may not be contributing to the ammonia, is there a chance that the mat is bacteriostatic or treated in any way that would inhibit microbial growth. If so, could that prevent the BB from properly developing and metabolizing the nitrogenous wastes? Just a thought.


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Though the rubber may not be contributing to the ammonia, is there a chance that the mat is bacteriostatic or treated in any way that would inhibit microbial growth. If so, could that prevent the BB from properly developing and metabolizing the nitrogenous wastes? Just a thought.


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Knowledge has been dropped.
In all seriousness. . That makes a lot of sense, same way they treat sponges, i wouldn't be surprised if it is in fact gym mat which would most likely undergo said treatment in order to prevent stinkies forming.

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Though the rubber may not be contributing to the ammonia, is there a chance that the mat is bacteriostatic or treated in any way that would inhibit microbial growth. If so, could that prevent the BB from properly developing and metabolizing the nitrogenous wastes? Just a thought.

Well, it's possible of course, but it's much too early for me to be considered the cycle is stopped. In fact, I was surprised because I think some ammonia is cycling through, I saw some nitrite one day, and am seeing some nitrate now (just 5ppm). But both could be side effects of the fertilizer of course. The tank was full less than a week ago, it got a very tiny amount of media (maybe two cups total, one in each filter) as a jump start, and that media was fairly new (most of it was added to the old tank a week earlier to "cook" so I would have enough to share).

Really no right to expect a cycling tank yet.

At this point I'm more concerned about where the ammonia is coming from than why it is not going away.

But sure... could be an issue. I think not, because I think they would have advertised it as a feature. But could be.
 
It was just a thought. I'm thinking the source of the ammonia is probably to osmocote. But I have no experience with using it, just aware of the ingredients. Just curious (and you would have mentioned this) are you adding any ammonia aside from the osmocote (with the assumption of a fishless cycle)?
As for a mysterious ammonia source, I posted a thread in April 2013 in which I had set up a tank with the intent of doing a fishless cycle and ammonia appeared spontaneously. I did not add any to the tank, yet it read 8+ ppm about a week after setting it up. I would do a daily 90% WC and it would drop to <1 ppm but within 8-12 hours it was back to 8. This went on for a week. Plus a heavy oily film on the surface and thick, white, powdery substances on the plants, gravel and walls. New filter, a few plants from the old tank, small piece of boiled driftwood...nothing else added. The only thing I could point at was the EcoComplete. It sat on the garage floor a few months prior to this and went through several freeze thaw cycles. I believe it has bacteria in to provide an "instant cycle" and it is possible that something went wrong with the temperature fluctuations. I never did figure out what went wrong. Threw out the EcoComplete and filter media, sterilized everything and restarted from scratch. Whatever it was did not repeat itself.


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...I would do a daily 90% WC and it would drop to <1 ppm but within 8-12 hours it was back to 8. This went on for a week. Plus a heavy oily film on the surface and thick, white, powdery substances on the plants, gravel and walls. New filter, a few plants from the old tank, small piece of boiled driftwood...nothing else added. The only thing I could point at was the EcoComplete.

I had what I can only assume was a massive bacterial bloom also, I think caused by a large driftwood stump. It had been in someone else's tank for years (so I was told), but it immediately grew lots of white streamers and the whole tank turned opaque white, you literally could not see from one end to the other, could barely see across the 2' side.

It went away and for half a day I had a bad smell, then that went away, but there is a lot of crud on everything - grey to brow, I assumed some kind of algae developing but not sure.

Maybe that also contributed.

I did a test with Osmocote in a glass -- 4 granules in a pint of water (no idea what ratio is in the real tank, but I used a tablespoon +/- in about 200 Gallons). After 20 hours it's reading .5 ppm. Not terrible, but certainly a contributor.
 
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