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Old 04-09-2014, 07:49 PM   #1
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Sumps and Pumps!

Hey everyone,

Alright so I have been looking I to ways to get a sump for my 55g reef build. The problem I'm having is the glass is tempered. I've reasearch quite a few different sump models that I might be able to use.

The reasons a HOB overflow is NOT one of them are:
1. It's on the 2nd story of my house, issues with ceiling warping if there was a flood.
2.It's on carpet.

Here are the different ways I came up with:

1. An overhead sump. Where a small pump, like a Maxijet 800-1200, to pump water a couple of feet is placed in the tank. The sump then sits above the tank, obviously on a different structure. The sump tank is then drilled, and without a return pump the water flows back into the tank.
Thoughts/Opinions and experiences?

2. In-Tank pump concept.
Same type of thing except it required two pumps. A small one, like a maxijet, and a normal return pump. The sump still sits under the tank.
Thoughts/Opinions and experiences?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:35 PM   #2
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Following along. I want to hear some suggestions
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Old 04-09-2014, 10:42 PM   #3
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I'm not sure I understand, how is a hob overflow (which may hold a gallon of water, and stops drawing water down as soon as siphon breaks) more of a leak risk than an overhead sump system... It seems to me the overhead could, in certain circumstances, be leaking at a connection, and continue pumping up, losing water till tank level was lower than the pump. Am I maybe imagining the wrong set up from what you are explaining.

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Old 04-10-2014, 12:45 AM   #4
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With that 1st set up the sump will be with constant water level while the DT will not due to evaporation. Your ato will be filling up the DT to maintain the desired level. The problem would be, since the DT will have more surface area it will mean you will be filling it up with larger volume of ato water. In turn that larger volume will create more fluctuation with your parameter (salinity). Unless of course if you can find an ato with a minute graduation.

The 2nd set up is not feasible at all. You will never be able to balance the flow for both.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:15 AM   #5
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Isn't only the bottom pane of glass tempered? If so you could easily drill the back pane and have a 90 degree elbow fitting facing upward, that's what I did on my 40g breeder tank.

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Old 04-10-2014, 08:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eport View Post
Isn't only the bottom pane of glass tempered? If so you could easily drill the back pane and have a 90 degree elbow fitting facing upward, that's what I did on my 40g breeder tank.

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On the 55g model all panels are tempered. Every other one is just the bottom glass.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
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With that 1st set up the sump will be with constant water level while the DT will not due to evaporation. Your ato will be filling up the DT to maintain the desired level. The problem would be, since the DT will have more surface area it will mean you will be filling it up with larger volume of ato water. In turn that larger volume will create more fluctuation with your parameter (salinity). Unless of course if you can find an ato with a minute graduation.

The 2nd set up is not feasible at all. You will never be able to balance the flow for both.

What you pointed out with the first one is what I found to be true most times. I've also found that it would lack surface skimming, that goes for both methods actually.

Now, for the second set up, why would it be so hard to balance the flow. Creating a gravity flow down, like everything else, and then a return pump pushing it back up. Where would the flow absence be? The sump? DT? You can use the smallest of the smallest pump in the tank, like a MJ400. That pushes 2.5 feet max I believe. It must push the water about 1ft and the rest is done by gravity. The water should gain maybe 25-50goh flowing down. Then get a 500gph return pump. Don't see how it would be any different from the water draining in bulkheads or a siphon.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:52 AM   #8
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Both pumps would be at a constant flow and gravity cannot increase flow rate because the pump is putting more pressure through the hose than a siphon, but if you had gate valves on each the return and the feed lines it would easily be able to balance the flow othere wise one will have a higher flow and something will be overfilling, either the sump or display tank. Also if you do go with the second option, wherever you put the pump in the tank, height-wise, thats how far down the water level would go if the power ever went out and it would most likely flood the sump. You could just go with the HOB overflow and now people have been using small air vaccum pumps to keep the siphon going incase it were to ever break.
, and if the power went out there wouldnt be as much extra water heading into the sump and when the power comes back it starts the siphon again.

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Old 04-10-2014, 10:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eport View Post
Both pumps would be at a constant flow and gravity cannot increase flow rate because the pump is putting more pressure through the hose than a siphon, but if you had gate valves on each the return and the feed lines it would easily be able to balance the flow othere wise one will have a higher flow and something will be overfilling, either the sump or display tank. Also if you do go with the second option, wherever you put the pump in the tank, height-wise, thats how far down the water level would go if the power ever went out and it would most likely flood the sump. You could just go with the HOB overflow and now people have been using small air vaccum pumps to keep the siphon going incase it were to ever break.
, and if the power went out there wouldnt be as much extra water heading into the sump and when the power comes back it starts the siphon again.

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Neither of the tanks would overflow with the second method if the water level is kept at the correct height. Say, 8" of water out of 16" the tank is. I wouldn't place the pump 8" down in the DT, so neither would overflow.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Neither of the tanks would in eachverflow with the second method if the water level is kept at the correct height. Say, 8" of water out of 16" the tank is. I wouldn't place the pump 8" down in the DT, so neither would overflow.
Yes you can compromise by reducing the volume of water in both tanks by lowering the minimum level. You also need to install other sensors or controls to stop each pump before it reaches the minimum level. Even if you can balance the flow by means of gate valves overtime they will gradually deviate from each other. With all those stuff to make it work it becomes complicated. Using smaller capacity pumps will reduce filtering effectiveness. Lastly, I have not known anyone yet with such configuration. You might be the first.
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