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Old 04-20-2015, 10:54 AM   #31
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can't really argue with the facts and technical specs, and it appears that the old axim applies here as well;

If it sounds too good to be true.....
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Old 04-20-2015, 03:50 PM   #32
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That's not fact, that's opinion, and copied and pasted many times. The author never tested PUR readings from any of the fixtures he wrote about, and neither did the guy he copied from.
It doesn't sound "too good to be true". It is what it is, a cheap light with very little options that happens to grow sps corals in 30" of water. Piss your money away on tank bling if you like. I prefer to spend the money on corals.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:13 PM   #33
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That's not fact, that's opinion, and copied and pasted many times. The author never tested PUR readings from any of the fixtures he wrote about, and neither did the guy he copied from.
It doesn't sound "too good to be true". It is what it is, a cheap light with very little options that happens to grow sps corals in 30" of water. Piss your money away on tank bling if you like. I prefer to spend the money on corals.
Did you actually read it and understand the point being made?
The types of components used to construct the lights isn't "opinion".
The efficiency of those components isn't "opinion".
He never said coral won't grow with those lights, just that they use inferior components that translates into less efficiency and more electricity consumed.

From that perspective, over time those lights are not as cheap. Maybe initial setup cost is low by comparison, but over the life of the product you loose that initial savings in higher energy consumption.

you're right it is what it is, a cheap light made with cheap, second rate components that are inefficient.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:25 PM   #34
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PAR is not the amount of light generated...that's lumens. PAR is the amount of light generated in that is between 400 and 700nm.
LOL..I've heard the term "shotgun" plenty of times. Last I checked, a shotgun was the best way to protect your home- it's a definite win win situation! Yes, Give me a shotgun when I have corals. I want to blast them with light! It just means you won't miss.
120 watts v. s. 90 watts for kessil? Not very much waste if you ask me.
Radion pro- 170 watts
hydra 52- 135 watts.

Yes, I've used a 6500k lamp to grow corals. Not pretty, but they grew well.

That's what I thought I said 15 posts ago. But we seem to like to find ways to argue over points that have long been put to bed. Nuff said.


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Old 04-20-2015, 04:39 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by PB_Smith View Post
Did you actually read it and understand the point being made?
The types of components used to construct the lights isn't "opinion".
The efficiency of those components isn't "opinion".
He never said coral won't grow with those lights, just that they use inferior components that translates into less efficiency and more electricity consumed.

From that perspective, over time those lights are not as cheap. Maybe initial setup cost is low by comparison, but over the life of the product you loose that initial savings in higher energy consumption.

you're right it is what it is, a cheap light made with cheap, second rate components that are inefficient.
Second rate? Maybe. Inefficient? Hardly. well, I've been using these units for years now...when am I going to start seeing the loss of savings? The facts I posted earlier, are that these units are more or less the same wattage as everyone elses.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:40 PM   #36
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T5 vs. MH vs. LED

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB_Smith View Post
Did you actually read it and understand the point being made?
The types of components used to construct the lights isn't "opinion".
The efficiency of those components isn't "opinion".
He never said coral won't grow with those lights, just that they use inferior components that translates into less efficiency and more electricity consumed.

From that perspective, over time those lights are not as cheap. Maybe initial setup cost is low by comparison, but over the life of the product you loose that initial savings in higher energy consumption.

you're right it is what it is, a cheap light made with cheap, second rate components that are inefficient.

Okay, let's take your point and use some math on it, rather than speculation. If a Tao light takes 20% more energy to generate the same PAR a Radion generates ( and it doesn't) then the difference in price between the fixtures is almost $400. In my city a kilowatt hour costs $.09.

So the energy difference at 20% is less than 2 cents per KWH. That's 20,000 KWH before you equal the cost of the Radion. Or roughly 22,000 days at 8 hours a day. (At 120 watts)

You don't get the bling you get with the Radion, but the resultant energy efficiency is a non starter and not a reason to buy such a expensive fixture, unless you just want one. Which is as good a reason you can get.


I was one of the very first to import and sell the Chinese fixtures, in fact Mr_X got shipped one of my first ones before they got popular on eBay. He kindly tested it for me. I took nothing but grief for the first year from the MH and T5 groups, until they saw how well they grew corals, then the trolling stopped. Those were the days, I got called everything in the book because everyone knew then that LEDs were a scam. There is no right answer, just what works for you.

I moved on to RapidLed and Cree emitters for my display tank (wanted full spectrum) but still use the old Chinese LEDs for my ATS, soft coral frag and Stoney coral frag systems.


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Old 04-20-2015, 06:03 PM   #37
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Okay, let's take your point and use some math on it, rather than speculation.
again, neither I nor the author of the linked article said anything about whether or not coral will grow using these lights, they merely raised some valid questions concerning the quality of the components used, the actual efficiency of those components and whether or not they actually produce the light spectrums they claim.

True, the actual energy $$$ concerned are trivial, but the fact still remains concerning the efficiency of the individual components.
There is a reason they are a fraction of the cost of other units and it isn't solely because of where they are coming from.

that article called into question their longevity and the warranty.
How long have you guys been running them and how do they fair in regards to heat generation in comparison to others, as that was one of the main contentions of the article,
inefficient components=wasted electricity=heat=short life span.

what is your take on that point of the article.

As I don't currently have any LED lights, I am not emotionally invested in one over another, I'm just looking at the information provided and regardless of personal opinions, the numbers have to be considered.

personally, after research/shopping around, I'm leaning towards making my own unit as finances permit as being the most concise answer for me.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:10 PM   #38
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T5 vs. MH vs. LED

I would agree that making your own unit makes sense. That's what I did.

The Chinese panels I have used don't run especially hot, but Chinese drivers are notorious for being poor quality (led drivers...). That being said I saw a 5% failure rate after a year. Since the panels are so cheap, you can decide to replace a $25 driver or the whole panel. In the case of a big facility growing corals, that's what I would use and discard them if and when they go bad.


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Old 04-20-2015, 06:14 PM   #39
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I would agree that making your own unit makes sense. That's what I did.

The Chinese panels I have used don't run especially hot, but Chinese drivers are notorious for being poor quality (led drivers...). That being said I saw a 5% failure rate after a year. Since the panels are so cheap, you can decide to replace a $25 driver or the whole panel. In the case of a big facility growing corals, that's what I would use and discard them if and when they go bad.


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then, without my wanting to sound like jerk, the article was correct about the components, right?
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:17 PM   #40
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T5 vs. MH vs. LED

Painting with a pretty broad brush IMO. The first Chinese panels I would agree left something to be desired, but the newer generation are far better. There are also domestic panels that are a waste of money.

When one panel costs $100 and the other similar spec panel costs $500 there needs to be a more dramatic difference for me to get excited. And you certainly don't sound like a jerk to me. I try very hard to treat everyone with respect, until I snap...These are good topics to debate, it's just been going on for a long time.

I do like my DIY RapidLed setup as a fixture using Cree LEDs that I pick the mix on gives me flexibility and computer control for about twice the cost of a Tao unit and that suits me fine.


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