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Old 07-18-2008, 10:16 PM   #11
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With a 265g tank you are going to need a lot more then 1200gph. i would suggest double that.

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Old 07-18-2008, 10:31 PM   #12
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I do know the differance of flow and circulation. And a Mag24 puts out 2400 gph and with 2 outlets at 6 ft up your lucky if you get 200 goh from each jet. This would be if there clean and pumps working to spec. After algea collects then you will loose more.
The fuge is its own tank and needs the right amount of exchange. 200 to 400 gph going through is what you want. Less would mean algea and poor macro growth and to much means macro cant eat enough and equipment wont work as well.

Then he states a 1200 gph pump from this. Well i think you would be fine.

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Old 07-18-2008, 10:37 PM   #13
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ok I'm lost beyond belief now...

I have a little giant 4mdqx-sc now and it's not enough.

Help... Reeflo wahoo... Blueline hd 100 are what I was thinking....

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Old 07-18-2008, 10:42 PM   #14
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What are you trying to acheive? Whats the size of the main tank and the source? Is this for a sump or fuge? Whats the flow rating on that pump?
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:23 PM   #15
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Ok here I go:

265 gallon tank from all glass with 2 returns one on each end. Drains are 1" and the returns are 3/4".

Under the cabinet I have a wet/dry system and an external skimmer, external skimmer is on a little giant 3-mdqx-sc (1200gph @ 0ft), the return is on a little giant 4-mdqx-sc (1325 @ 0 ft).

From the pump outlet I have a 1ft PVC, split into two for the 2 returns. Counting that length along with the length of the two returns to the top of the tank, including horizontal and vertical length, is 15ft.

Currently flow is not enough...prob getting 300gph to each return, if that.

The way I thought it's figured is look at the 15ft of head loss, look at the curve, in this example the hd 100 (1900gph @ 0ft) and then look at the curve to see flow rate at 15ft and wam.. Take that, let's say 1300, divide by 2 (for 2 returns) and end up with 650gph per return..

BUT when I input the numbers in that calculator and select the blueline HD 100, it says I have 24ft of head loss... How, this is where I get lost... Since I only have 15ft of head loss based on the above..

So... Which number is right and how is this calculator spitting 24ft?

For reference, only the vertical and horizontal numbers were put in, all else, I.e. 45 degree bends or valves, etc was left out and at 0.

Hope I'm explaining good enough.

Goal: put out 600 to 700gph per return.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:33 AM   #16
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Flow for the fuge is fine. You need some powerheads in there. You need about 5000 GPH flowing and you dont wont this from the fuge return pump. You need some high end powerheads and 3 or 4 of them. This amount would be your minimum amount but i would increase it more myself. The little added flow from the skimmer and return will only help. Your lacking alot of water movement.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:49 AM   #17
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ok..so I assuming this head loss calculator is right, taking friction into account, pipe size, etc...then I have 24ft of head pressure loss not 15ft (which is just pipe length).

assuming that's correct, I would think the http://www.reeflopumps.com/pressurebiaseduno.html MARLIN model would be adequate, since at 25ft head it's at 1267GPH.

divide that by the two returns I would be pumping 633GPH per return...

Am I correct in the above?

that being said, for water movement inside the tank (to prevent stale water, algea growth, elevated levels, etc...I use two Koralia 4 pumps, one on each side of the tank...which seems to move water just fine across from end to end...

but my concern is the return water and how fast and how many times I'm actually turning that tank...which by my calculations, assuming this headloss calculator that's out there is accurate, I'm getting 125GPH now per return...which not only is not enough but it's probably promoting my not wanted algea growth, low PH levels (8.0 to 8.1) can't seem to get to 8.2 or 8.3...amongst other things...

as I understand that poor water flow from the returns can equate to all of the above...do to lack oxygen exchange, etc...

correct or am I way of base here...

(as for chemicals and/or test, yes they are all normal, except for PH)

nitrites: 0
nitrates: 20
phosphates: 0.25
salt: 1.023
calcium=440 (but can't get coraline algea to grow)...using T5's for lighting..and trust me, there is enough lights, and of the right kind

so...am I on track here or way off...
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:02 AM   #18
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If your getting to much flow through your fuge then your fuge suffers. Even with the return and the 2 K4's your still a little low.
I cant find the head loss calculator and im positive you will loose atleast half of the rated flow if not more. Dont factor in your return from fuge for main tanks needed flow. The amount it may add will only help. Achive good flow from independent sources. Many problems from low flow take time to appear , like months or yrs. Get good flow in there and then move on to next issue.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:09 AM   #19
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When you plug in your #'s in the calculator, there is a spot to enter how many exits there are. Don't assume you divide by 2 because you have 2 exits. Let the calculator do the work.
How big is your sump? The recommended flow rate thru a sump is 5-10x the tank volume. But, if your sump is small, like 10g size, running even 1000gph thru it may be too much. My sump is a 55 in my basement directly under the tank. I use a Gen-X PCX 40 and with head loss I'm pushing around 850 gph thru my sump.
As far as flow inside the tank, what kind of corals do you have? Soft coral doesn't need or want nearly as much flow as SPS. In my 125 mostly SPS tank, I have 2 Koralia 4's, 2 K-3's and 1 K-1.
The amount of flow you have now is not a factor as far as algae growth. Looking at the parameters you posted, what sticks out is the phosphate level. You mentioned you have unwanted algae. You may think 0.25 is low (recommended phosphate level is 0.05), but that's only what's free in the water. The algae in the tank is sucking it up. You need to remove the food source (phosphate) and the algae will die off. Phophate inhibits calcification, which can and will prevent coralline from growing. Also, what is your alk and mag levels? All 3 (ca, alk, mag) go hand in hand and are used proportionately by hard coral and coralline.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:23 AM   #20
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CCCAPT is giving you the correct advice here. Ziggy's calculation is also correct. I'm not sure about this but you may need to add a ball valve to even the flow between the two returns if one is driectly above the pump and the other is 6 feet horizontal to that.

Do you have a refugium with macro algea, or do you have any macro in the sump?

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